Hi all, I’ve been a long time Grim Dawn fan but it’s my first time creating a post, there’s something about the game that has always bothered me and with the upcoming expansion I thought I’d share it here, it probably has been mentioned in the past, I find it weird that to go to Elite difficulty the story is reset forcing the player to repeat the base game story, I know that once you do this you will be able to buy merits and not repeat the process for future characters, however it’s the first time that puts many players off, I know this because I have played with dozens of friends, and once they know that they have to go through the whole main story again just so we can continue playing on a higher difficulty, they either stop playing there or eventually they end up getting burned out and quitting the game when they decide to repeat the main story to move on to Elite.
Now of course there’s the option of simply ignoring the higher difficulties and continuing to the DLC on Veteran, which was what I did with the person I last played the game, the problem is it’s incredibly easy, there was no challenge at all, just mindlessly exploding mobs all the way to the end of Forgotten Sands and getting disappointed at the whole experience.
I’m not asking to allow Elite/Ultimate from the beginning, to avoid “accidental self-imposed frustration for beginners”, but an option to seamlessly switch to Elite once the player has defeated Loghorrean and finished the base story while keeping quest progression up to that point, and then to Ultimate.
Edit: I’m aware now that there are a lot of systems tied to difficulty progression that make changing it unfeasible, but I still wish something would change even if minor, an improvement to accessibility of higher difficulties would be very beneficial to the health of the game, the game itself does not properly explain the intricacies of the difficulty system and how to obtain Merits, so it’s not strange to see the steam forums littered with players talking about this and confused on how to access higher difficulties, a new entry to the help codex and/or an informative tooltip/button near the higher difficulties in the menu would be greatly appreciated.
Not quite sure what you’re expecting. Moving up to Elite or Ultimate is possible after defeating Loghorrean on Normal now, but you still play the base game when doing so. Where do you expect to start higher difficulty if not at the base game?
Sorry maybe I wasn’t clear, once you defeat Loghorrean and choose to go to Elite, you have to restart the story and start from the beginning again do you not? Having to do the base game twice is what my qualm is, or has something changed since last I played?
it’s to get quests for XP and faction rep etc
if all you want to do is go to Ult just skip elite and go straight from Normal to Ultimate (you still have to repeat the story on Ult, but again, it’s xp+rep otherwise you’d have to grind that which is slower)
Yes, that’s how it works. Where do you expect to start a higher difficulty if not at the beginning again is what I’m asking?
GD is old school; 3 difficulties usually though Crate have given us options with merit tokens and now Loghorrean Normal difficulty kill to skip up if we want to.
I’d expect to start a higher difficulty when you have killed Loghorrean, the end of the base game, I already explained the reasons why in my post. Merit tokens are a poor system, nothing more than a post-production band-aid, a quick fix. And no offence but being old school is no reason for something to be stuck in the past catching dust, especially a game that has received updates/support over several years and has an upcoming “badoncas” expansion that will improve on old systems, including graphics, UI, animations, and even adding WASD controls, a clear move to catch up to modern ARPGs and capture many new players, so why not extend it a wee bit to difficulty progression?
Yes, but where do you expect to start playing that higher difficulty? Where the Ashes expansion starts? Forgotten Gods one? Because there isn’t endgame stuff that you can leap to without playing at least some of the game.
Ashes of Malmouth since that continues the story from the base game, I’m not necessarily talking about “endgame stuff” just continuing the story quests after the base game on a higher difficulty without resetting the campaign.
If you’re mentioning playing with friends, are you referring to multiplayer mode? The campaign is designed around single-player and is very easy for singular players; the multiplayer campaign makes it completely laughable to the point that 4 players were able to defeat the “infinite” Shattered Realm and required Zantai to up the monster scaling.
If you’re looking for a good multiplayer experience, yeah Grim Dawn is going to be too easy. For singular players, can you invite the player to a multiplayer game and purchase a merit for those people so that they can start the game as Level 1 on Elite or Ultimate without having to play the campaign more than once?
I’m pretty sure the Merits are soulbound and cannot be traded with other players, only between characters, so even if you are able to buy Merit Tokens you cannot trade them to a friend, about the multiplayer that is a balancing issue that can be fixed with more multiplayer scaling options/tweaks, and tbh I liked the experience of the base game even with more than 2 players, it only started getting trivial later on.
I assume you have played since 1.2.0.0, and so your feedback is taking into account all difficulties at least scaling (in most areas) up to level 100?
If so, best practice is currently to unlock the ability to buy Merits, and just start a new playthrough from level 1 on either Elite or Ultimate and do as much of the game as you want there. I get that it is more awkward to arrange for a multiplayer group where not everyone is in the same place or able to jump through the hoops, but it is relatively easy / doable / a workaround.
Three times through for three difficulties is the classic setup throughout the ancient past, and I get that it may look as weird to PoE players as PoE’s mid-game difficulty jumps did to me the first time. At least being able to start a new character on Elite or Ultimate (which can be tricky!) is a workaround or kludge for what you’re looking for.
I think you misunderstood my post, Merits don’t fix the problem unfortunately, and I don’t understand the easy workaround you mention, my complaint is how about a first time player has to restart the campaign to move on to Elite/Ultimate, essentially beating the base game twice in a row, that burns people out.
What I’m asking for is to be able to naturally move on to Elite difficulty after the base game, without having to repeat the base campaign.
XP, reputation, and faction choices
if the campaign don’t reset you have to manually grind a bunch and you don’t get the option to make different faction choices re kymon/anasteria/Barrowholm/Witch Gods
Merits also does kinda fix your issue too; it lets you start at ultimate at level 1, allowing you to only do 1 playthrough if you so wish.
And if we’re just pontificating for our own amusement, I am actually not sure where hard-coded difficulty increases would go in the framework of a single play-through of Grim Dawn, because after beating the Warden in Act 1, you can just hop directly into all of Forgotten Gods if you wanted before ever heading northwest out of Devil’s Crossing. Fangs of Asterkarn is reported to start at Fort Ikon:
So it’s not clear where Elite and Ultimate would trigger, especially for people that never want to play Ultimate at all and like the difficulty of Normal or Veteran just fine.
And it would definitely require some multiplayer rework since characters currently can’t join games hosted in difficulties they haven’t unlocked.
It would also deprive people of the joy of doing Act 1 in Ultimate on a Level 1 character.
I edited my most recent reply adding “base campaign” if that confused you, even tho I already mentioned it in the previous posts, I’m not talking about the whole campaign.
Then tweak the “grind” for rep/xp to be more enjoyable or just give the sufficient rewards to put the player ready for Elite so they can continue the story and go to Malmouth, for veteran players it doesn’t matter sure because they have already done it and now can buy merits, but it’s a terrible first player experience.
Merits don’t fix the issue because to obtain them you need to finish the base game twice which is my main complaint in the original post.
the point is the same
ignoring the technicality that quest progress is tied/connected whole or not, which Anachoret also touched on
You’re still having the issue of faction reset/skipping faction choices etc,
and bumping up xp/rep doesn’t fix it either; you just made the first playthough powerspike and trivial/screwing with regular progression fell across the board
i think overall perhaps the basic thread is probably just you’re underestimating how integral the parts affected are designed around eachother, and that balancing/pacing is part of what makes GD GD.
you don’t
you need to clear base game once (to get the Logh trigger) and act 1 twice(you only need to clear act 1 mq to unlock FG), on one char that’s it, then for all future alts you’ve got access
Alternative you play MP in custom mode and start lvl 1 on Ult direct without merits - which you’ve always been able to do
I kinda like TQ2’s system, they got rid of fixed difficulty modes and instead you can adjust monster levels anytime you want, if you have the gold required. This can make the game very easy or very hard, or anything in between.
Doubt a dynamic system like that would work with GD’s old engine though.
But an almost dynamic switch from Normal to Veteran without losing progress is possible, so why not get rid of any restrictions and let the player switch from Normal to Elite and Ultimate like you can already switch to Veteran? (I guess the answer is gonna be: too much re-balancing required or maybe even technical reasons)
I think it’s pretty unlikely the devs are going to upend the current progression in favor of this. I have no doubt they could, but that’ll take time and resources they likely want to use elsewhere. This would be a valid request for GD2 though.
If you’re proposing an optional increase, sure, it could, putting aside all the faction choice, devotion shrine, and additional skill points stuff. I would guess it would probably work something like this:
Though some of the difficulty in the DLC expansions isn’t just from “the difficulty mode”, it is in higher-tuned foes, so some people might get double-whammyied going into Gloomwald in conjunction with the difficulty increase, that sort of thing.
