Myth and Non-Myth Min/Max Stats Values on Items

Grim Dawn Gameplay Discussion
1

By the current Max values on Non-Myth items and Min values on Myth items, there is a decent change some Non-Myth items end up with higher values in stats than the Myth ones. And it’s far from fair.

Mythical form of any item…should be…exactly what it says…MYTHICAL - so the normal form cannot have values as high as the myth one.

Taking the 2 items in the pic for ex:

Ulzuin Shoulder has max 72% for +dmg% and Myth Ulzuin Shoulder has min 69%. It should be the other way around. Or at least the same. Max values on non-myths should be the same as min values on myth items.

Also 34-50% and 36-54% Poison Res, and 19-29% and 21-31% Elem res…that is a Myth Difference ? The normal ones should have 25-40%poison and 15-20%elem, and the myth ones should remain the same.

Also Myth Ulzuin Shoulders should have 1 more bonus skill to offer, as the belt has the bonus +2 Markovian on the myth one.

Now to the belt…6-8% crit on both…this might be a small thing that was forgotten, the myth one should have 8-12%.

Bleeding res and max bleeding res - also - The same on both ? Wtf ?

The +dmg% on the normal and myth ones, in values, are correct, the normal item max values does not pass the min value of the myth one. VERY CORRECT.

The main ideea is that :

Max Values of stats on normal items, should not be higher than Min Values of stats on the myth form of the same item, and, the myth form should always give more skills as bonus, if not new ones, as the belt.
At least the myth shoulders can give +3 to both, not still, the same as normal ones +2…

2

That would be kind of idiotic, in my opinion. Imagine items giving (as you stated) 6 - 8 % at level 75, and 8 - 12% at 94, you get some perfect rolls and let’s say 3 of your items have max, 12%, crit damage. That’s 36% bonus crit damage. If they increased the resistances, let’s say, an item gives 30% (max) elemental res and 60% poison, the myth version would give at least that value and you could overcap resistances by even 50% on almost all characters.

Skill bonuses were added, and sometimes skill modifiers, if a particular item could not be well balanced to the level cap 100. They’d be forced to drastically nerf the lower level items which would reduce the power of lower level characters. If a particular item would give +3 to a skill, and then it would be increased to +4 at level 94, imagine the shitfest the balance would be. You’d be able to add any skill you like, you’d go for + to particular skills or to all skills and have like every skill. Imagine having a set which gives at least +2 to ALL skills in a particular mastery (because lower level, 75 version, gives +1 to the particular mastery). I have a Nightblade/Shaman build where I get +6 to all skills in nightblade. Mythical versions would be +12, or +13 because of 94 level version of Soulrend (level 75 gives +2 to nightblade). Now I can overlevel every ability I really need to have with 1 - 10 ponts. That would equal to maybe 20 lost points, if not less, while right now we need to waste even more (maybe even about 50, or more).

Your idea would kind of make a shitfest of this game.

They made “mythical” versions only to fit them into level cap 100. The name has nothing to do with the item. Of course, they could’ve named them “empowered”, but that would seem kind of bad, since you’d pick up Mythical epic items and only empowered legendary items.

3

There’s a difference of 3% between Ulzuin Shoulderguard’s max % damage bonus rolls and M. Ulzuin Shoulderguard’s min % bonus rolls. The difference is so small that it wouldn’t matter if they edged the Mythical up slightly or not, it’s miniscule and I don’t see it worth the time to change for every Mythical in the game.

Also 34-50% and 36-54% Poison Res, and 19-29% and 21-31% Elem res…that is a Myth Difference ? The normal ones should have 25-40%poison and 15-20%elem, and the myth ones should remain the same.

So you would nerf the ordinary Ulzuin Shoulderguards and possibly many other non-Mythicals after they have gone through numerous balances/resist additions pre-expansion just so the Mythical version isn’t shown up? Seems odd to me.

Do remember that anyone who was using Ulzuin’s set when the expansion launched weeks ago will have been using these until they found the Mythical version to upgrade to.

Also Myth Ulzuin Shoulders should have 1 more bonus skill to offer, as the belt has the bonus +2 Markovian on the myth one.

You’re comparing an item that’s part of a Legendary set with a random Legendary belt.

Now to the belt…6-8% crit on both…this might be a small thing that was forgotten, the myth one should have 8-12%.

If this was the case for every item, you’de start to see power creep. Why? In your example, a max Mythical roll is double a minimum non-Mythical roll and 50% higher than a maximum non-Mythical roll.

Imagine if someone focused on getting every item on their setup with max Mythical rolls for OA and settled for everything else being average. Same can be said for other stats like % crit damage or CDR, it could get ridiculous.

Bleeding res and max bleeding res - also - The same on both ? Wtf ?

How much would you increase them by?

4

I don’t understand. You want no myth versions nerfed or myth versions buffed.

Also why do you say myth belt has less skills. It has more

5

Overall, some values on non-myth should be a lil lower, and some values on myth items should be a lil higher.

6

That might be true, but the Poison and Elem res difference ar almost inexistent - and i said to nerf the non-myth not to buff the myth ones, cause that would be OP

No, overall, some values on non-myth should be lowered, and some values on myth items should be higher.

I am comparing mythacal items to not mythical items - sets can be both, and a lot set items, on their own, are very good, some even better, than non-set items.

Yes - in my opinion, max value of myth beeing double the min value of non myth is normal. But not in all cases, but with crit it should definitly be. How is that overpower, i have 135% crit dmg with my druid (no pets), and mostly from skills, and i have 63% on my bm, that is maxed out, and all crit% is max value on every item that can have it…how would 12% crit on myth belt be OP ?

7

I still disagree that the non-Mythical items should be nerfed. What does doing this accomplish? It means these items are worse for levelling or as stepping stones until someone upgrades to the Mythical version for no reason.

Now if you think Mythicals need to be buffed is another matter entirely and should be gone over case-by-case rather than widespread buffs to everything.

I am comparing mythacal items to not mythical items - sets can be both, and a lot set items, on their own, are very good, some even better, than non-set items.

In your example, you’re comparing Ulzuin’s Shoulderguard and Blade Breaker Sash to their Mythical versions. One is a set item and with enough pieces gives a multitude of bonuses including +2 to all skills in Demolitionist. The other does not. The belt deserves a bit more for it’s Mythical version for this reason.

At best you could argue that Ulzuin’s set could also support Inquisitor skills like Bursting Round but it’s been strictly designed to be a Demolitionist set as some of the other item sets are strictly for a single mastery like Iskandra’s set or Markovian’s set.

If you think Mythical Ulzuin’s set needs to be buffed, that is another matter entirely, there’s a topic discussing it here.

but with crit it should definitly be. How is that overpower, i have 135% crit dmg with my druid (no pets), and mostly from skills, and i have 63% on my bm, that is maxed out, and all crit% is max value on every item that can have it…how would 12% crit on myth belt be OP ?

Item slots are available to everyone. Certain builds don’t just see a boost from this, everyone does and it’s unnecessary as things are now.

You have 14 item slots that may or may not have % crit damage. Lets say only half of those in a build have % crit damage. If you up that by 5% for each, that’s +35% crit damage which is the same as 12/12 Stormcaller’s Pact or roughly the same as 22/12 Elemental Balance. That’s pretty big.

8

Yes, u are half right, cause…what about the other classes that that dont have those skills ? Those are actually the skills i get the high crit% for my druid…but im 2h, and i wont use bladebreaker sash with my class…so still just from skills im double in crit% compared to others that have crit% from items…and i still think 12% crit on myth belt would not be at all OP…cause it’s for classes that dont have permanent passive crit% bonus from skills.

9

They have other means of increasing damage. For example, Demolitionist lacks % crit damage but makes it up to an extent through resist reduction on Thermite Mine (which Arcanist lacks) and the ability to get crits often through Flame Touched + Flashbang (Shaman’s only sources of OA are Tenacity of the Boar/Emboldening Presence which can be hard to fit into most builds whereas Flame Touched/Flashbang are not).

I wouldn’t say Demolitionist builds that aren’t part Shaman/Arcanist don’t suddenly need more crit damage and even then, increasing stats on Mythicals isn’t the way to do it, it invites power creep at endgame and is hard to control.

and i still think 12% crit on myth belt would not be at all OP…cause it’s for classes that dont have permanent passive crit% bonus from skills.

I have no issue with Blade Breaker Sash having % crit damage, as you say, it gives Nightblades a way to get crit damage without having to pick a 2nd mastery that has it innately, but the possibility of 12% on one or multiple items is a bit too much. 6-8% is a comfortable amount, not too low and not too high.