Hello, i wanted to make a post here with some feedback about the Mythical Version of Arcanum Sigillis. i made a Reddit post (sorry cannot link it) about mythical legendary procs being removed from a lot of items in the expansion and i wanted to single out this one as it is the one that is bothering me a lot.
i dont think im alone in being one of many people who are probably dissapointed with the Mythical version of Arcanum Sigillis. i think Mage Hunter is going to be a popular Inquisitor mastery combination. before the grim tools item update was released, i think a lot of people were looking forward to making use of this gun as it wasnt really all that useful before and the stats, proc and theme of the weapon fit perfectally for a Mage Hunter.
unfortunately, the Mythical Version of the gun replaces the proc with a bunch of bonuses to Fire Strike, which i find baffling. there are SO many pistols with fire damage support. in fact up until the expansion items i think most of that are fire damage oriented. why on Cairn would you pick this one to give the Fire Strike bonuses to? this is the only pistol with elemental support, and while the stats are nice, the proc is a large part of its power and its going to be pretty important for a Mage Hunter build since if you want to be a Mage Hunter that focuses on gunslinging with WPS you will need all the AoE you can get since you will NOT be using Fire Strike, which is why it is so weird to give these guns the Fire Strike bonus. these procs were a pretty significant part of the build i was planning and i simply dont understand why these pistols were chosen to support Fire Strike when thematically there are so many other fire oriented guns that would have been better suited to that.
another option if you dont want to put the proc back would be to at least change the Fire Strike bonus to something more appropriate for Mage Hunter. something that affect the WPS of Inquistor would be really cool. like add AoE component to Chilling Rounds maybe, extra projectiles to Storm Spread, conversion to Elemental Dmg on the WPS maybe? something like those could be really really cool i think and much more appropriate.
anyways i hope this will be taken under consideration because i do not think i am the only one that feels this way. so many guns are already aimed at Purifier, i think the Fire Strike bonus should be put on them and aim Arcanum Sigillis for Mage Hunter. by the way some of the new guns with Lightning support are very cool so great job on that!
+1, I was considering making a topic about this myself. The game is overloaded with guns with Purifier bonuses. It’s as if Crate views Mage Hunter as just a caster. If they are so intent on removing procs, the way I might change the gun is change the Fire Strike bonus to +2 Arcane Empowerment, +3% Total Speed to Arcane Empowerment. This way, it would be useful to both gunners and PRM casters, and we wouldn’t have to worry about giving away too much movement speed because you have to stand in the seal to benefit from it.
This issue is significant to me because I mentioned this back in March. Most people agreed with me, and I had just assumed Zantai would see the light and put Granted Skills back. No dice.
Zantai asks what skills should be put back. I say all of them.
But seriously, in short: Mythical Arcanum Sigilis needs its proc back and/or the Fire Strike bonus needs to get changed to something in Inquisitor. It is a very disappointing weapon in its current state.
I agree, Beronath fury Elemental gunslinger build does not look so good anymore. And those bonuses don’t make much sense to me, other than in some exotic PRM build. Very annoying.
I second this. I don’t necessarily want the proc back (it would be one way to solve the problem), but I want this to be a mage hunter weapon instead of a purifier weapon. I definitely did not think “fire strike” when looking at this weapon.
i am glad to see support for this issue. hopefully Zantai will see this thread and take into serious consideration.
i am personally of the mind to just keep the original procs on the new mythicals and then maybe just tone down the new skill effects they add, but i do understand if Crate wants to go a different direction. just PLEASE take a look at Arcanum Sigillis in particular and replace the proc or fix the bonuses to something good for Inquistor or Mage Hunter because Fire Strike stuff (and even PRM imo) just does not belong on this gun.
Obviously, item skill modifiers are a great thing, and we definitely wouldn’t want to lose those. On the other hand, procs are the very essence fo GD gameplay, and they are significant in the sense that they add a ton of variety and flashy effects.
Balancing out those two factors can’t be easy, so I feel for Crate right now (think about it, the expac isn’t released yet and you already have people complaining about it).
Could the easiest way to balance it all out be to simply add back all the procs (or most of them), and buff the enemies? Make monsters harder to kill, and do more damage; that way you know that bringing back the procs together with item skill modifiers wouldn’t mess up the balance.
With respect, doesn’t that seem a little arbitrary? If (hypothetically) I come back and make a good convincing case for every lost proc, would you still pick and choose some to exclude from bringing back just for the sake of not bringing everything back?
I’m much less concerned with the ‘strength’ of procs being lost as I am with the variability of them when it comes to designing builds and when it comes to gameplay itself. I’ve expressed my opinions on the build design-factor before, but gameplay takes a crucial hit to entertainment levels when procs start to disappear. There’s something innately satisfying in seeing a bunch of things clutter the screen one after another, or all at once just suddenly obliterating a target in a great clusterfuck.
For instance, take (Mythical) Reaver’s Claw. Both are good items in their own right, but one definitely has a higher “fun” factor than the other because of its potential to dynamically alter gameplay on the fly, randomly. Mythical Reaver’s Claw, while probably nuts for autoattack Cadence characters, doesn’t add anything to how that gameplay feels, just how well it clears.
I don’t imagine that this is falling on deaf ears, and that you have likely considered all of this already. But that’s the disappointing part; that you’ve likely dwelled on this and decided to move forward anyways.
I do hope you will consider Mythical Arcanum Sigilis without the need for mods, though. It seemed like it was going to be perfect for Mage Hunters, so giving it a Fire Strike bonus when Purifiers already have many options is baffling.
the funny thing is, up until maybe a week ago i was dead set on Purifier all the way since i was very excited for Inquister and Demolitionist has always been my favorite mastery - gunslinger Fire Strike build was one of the very first build i really tooled around with a lot early on. then Arcanum Sigillis recipe drop for me when i was doing some last minute pre-expansion farming, and i just thought it was so cool and would be perfect for a Mage Hunter that i actually completely scrap my plans and build these guns to make a Mage Hunter around it. then i see that Mythical version adds to Fire Strike of all things! is really weird to me.
i am set on Mage Hunter though for sure and hope this will get looked at.
Besides the effect from the Arcanum Sigilis, what build did you guys wanted to do so badly with it. And why Mage Slayer. The proc doesn’t seems that good to me, i generally prefer proc dealing direct damage. So, what build/skill you really wanna use guys using the Arcanum Sigilis as a Mage Hunter?
The Mythical Arcanum Sigilis fits well with firestrike unless you don’t like the skill. The fact that the weapon has %aether damage means that you could convert chaos/fire damage to aether. So the damage of firestrike would become fire/aether.
The panetti’s replicating missile bonus is also nice and the weapon boost elemental/aether damage. Might have better somlution for the skill though, didn’t look/or remember much for that skill (looked pretty much everything on grimtools).
That said, for me procs are there not to look beautifull, but to increase my killing speed. It also change the feel of the build, it makes your build looking more powerfull. Usually it’s to increase the speed at wich you kill pack of monsters. Obviouslly it also helps for single target but it’s mainly for aoe, especially procs from gear. All in all, if i can kill as fast I don’t mind to much loosing 1 proc, but the overall feel (killing speed) gotta stand to the same lvl.
Ceno, if you choose to create a mod to address this issue, I will help you with it, as time allows.
Meanwhile, we have to realise what situation we’re in:
Crate will not push out any significant changes to the expansion so close to launch. It’s too risky. They might address this particular Mythical Arcanum Sigilis issue though.
Once it’s launched, this forum will be flooded with posts of all kinds from people of all kinds. The general issue of lost Granted Skills on Mythicals may get lost in the shuffle.
Zantai seems pretty stubborn about issue
So we should probably wait at least a few weeks for things to calm down, then press our case, one item at a time. Meanwhile we could work on the mod and in the process clarify our thoughts about why a proc should be back on a particular item.
I suspect the general argument would be similar to some of the arguments presented in this thread:
A non-mythical item can work well for both Class A or Class B. It has a Granted Skill that can work for both.
Its mythical version strongly optimises for Class A with far fewer benefits for Class B. It loses the Granted Skill in favour of said optimisations for Class A.
Class B gets shafted as a result.
This thread in particular argues also for optimisation for Class B instead of Class A, which is not directly related to the issue of lost Granted Skills. I’m not sure we want to get caught up in this. We should focus on nerfing overly strong optimisation towards a single class and bringing back Granted Skills in lieu.
Let’s use Shard of Asterkarn as an example. SoA can work well for both a Spellbreaker and a Druid. It has a granted skill that can work for both. Mythical Shard of Asterkan on the other hand strongly optimises for Druid. It loses the granted skill in favour of optimisations for Druid. Spellbreaker gets shafted as a result.
In addition to this argument template, we can also press home this point:
Procs proc procs.
That is, an on-attack proc on one item can proc another on-attack proc on another item. That means the sum of multiple procs is greater than the sum of its parts. There’s a great synergy between different procs on different gear because they can all trigger each other. When all of these procs are gone, the loss may be greater than what Crate realises.
Finally, we could always mention the “fun factor” that you’ve mentioned before.
Back on the topic of the mod: The more successful we can make it, the more evidence we have for Zantai to put all the Granted Skills back.
No, people currently react over one item (mostly) and the proc isn’t that appealing. Gotta prove your point by showing what build you wanted to do and how the proc actually helped your build/ or will help your build in the xpac. What build skill? And why people wanna go Mage Hunter with it?
It’s not because there are 2 skills modifier within the same item for 2 different mastery that you should use those 2 mastery. Especially when the item that your brought - Mythical Shard of Asterkan - affect more trozan sky shard then wind devil. All in all, spellbreaker isn’t really shafted as you’re saying.
i am realizing this as well, thank you for putting it so succinctly.
my goal in this thread is to try to get Mythical Arcanum Sigillis changed from it current state. i conceded that getting the devs to bring back all procs on Mythicals especially this close to the expansion was unrealistic, and Zantai suggested on my Reddit post to come here if i wanted to give feedback on a particular item so that is what i am doing.
i do think the case for keeping all procs is a worthy cause though and one i personally agree with, but for the reasons you mentioned above i think it would be better to seperate that argument from this thread and save it for the future when it will be better heard.
i was going to make an argument that Fire Strike on Mythic Arcanum Sigillis is useless, because honestly who is really going to be playing a Gunslinger Fire Strike Sorcerer once Inquisitor is released? but then i realized, yes, probably there will be some people that will still want to do that. so whether or not Fire Strike is useless on the gun is subjective (thematically i still find it nonsensical).
but the above point is exactly why i think in the case of Mythic Arcanum Sigillis the original proc should be restored. the Elemental Seal can benefit both a Fire Strike Sorcerer Gunslinger as well as a Mage Hunter Gunslinger, and probably other builds too. another thing is upon further examing other Mythic Pistols i’ve noticed a lot, in fact i think most of them kept their original procs even when they got new skill effects as well. and i would also argue that most of those procs are substantially more powerful than the proc in question here, which is why its so odd that this gun seemed to get singled out in particular when its the only one with Elemental Support.
anyhow i am glad to see Zantai has visited our thread here and i’m sure myself and my fellow Mage Hunters will be holding our breath and crossing our fingers!