Necromancer - Diablo III & Grim Dawn

Oh you misunderstood me

I loved the main menu thing. Heck Necromancer doing that thing was my favorite

I meant starting appearance (the way your character looks w/o armor), he looked less like a necromancer and looked more like drunkard

Okay, calling it a pet mastery is a bit of stretch

I see this reasoning a lot.

Does having pet support stop you from picking shaman or occultist? No, right?
I am pretty sure the same logic will apply to Necromancer

I can understand if someone has a personal gripe with necromancer but this reasoning seems flawed to me

I’d like to sort of echo Tek, I mean I did want more aether, cold and poison so I guess damage types matter to me, but I don’t care about a class’ theme. I’m excited for the necromancer, not because I like necromancers(though I absolutely do), but because between the necro and the inquisitor, the number of class combinations is going to nearly double from 15 to 28 and that’s going to mean all sorts of fun new builds.

I know some people are upset/disappointed that the 8th mastery is a necromancer, but to me, a mastery is just a skin for the skills and gear. I mean crate could have shown, I dunno an inventor that could summon 3 temporary robots at a time and had a device that could drain life from enemies. It doesn’t really matter. The point is that it’d function the same way, it would just look different and have a different name. I wonder if people would’ve been more accepting then.

Anyway, skills, functionality, gear and mastery synergies are what’s important and what I’m excited for. Couldn’t care less about what the mastery actually is, never will.

I have no issues with Shaman and Occultist because pets need support and they have those two masteries. My gripe with Necromancer is that yet another mastery with pets when we already have two. Did we really need another pet mastery? How about instead of adding another pet mastery, fix the issues with pets in general? Adding more pets doesn’t fix things.

Let’s not kid ourselves, it is another pet mastery. People can come with the “but Crate will put a spin on it” but so far it looks like it’s just a playable Dreadlord from Death’s Vigil (seriously, it even has the same Drain Essence from the Dreadlords). Totally wanted to play as that, yay.

I’ve never been this pissed since Krieg from Borderlands 2. Just another enemy made into a playable class. Extremely lame. First time in Grim Dawn where i just going to skip a mastery. Hopefully if it gets a second expansion and it gets new masteries, they will be much more inspired.

The D2 Necromancer was an anomaly. It was a class that, in a game that rewarded skill/planning, potentially allowed you to tackle content with very little skill/planning involved.
While it was a great class, it’s grown to represent that special hack/exploit/loophole/sweet spot/etc. that everyone is always looking for, to the point that “Necromancer” has become associated with the idea.
I’m not sure exactly how the D3 devs are going to pull that one off without alienating all the Witch Doctor summoner players they’ve basically betrayed by introducing the Necromancer, or the new fanbase which now expects them to re-introduce the old D2 Necromancer playstyle.

The good thing about the GD Necromancer is that people seem open to the fact that the devs are going to put their own spin on the class, which may be very different from the Diablo implementation.
There’s also room for growth among summoner subtypes, especially if you consider how GD Necromancers summoning skills work based on the little information we have - IIRC, you need to kill stuff to lower the cooldown of their summoning skills. That basically screams “hybrid” right there, or at least, tactical use of summoning abilities so you don’t end up blowing all your skill cooldowns.
I’m guessing their non-summoning skills are designed similarly.

The Occultist is really more “summon permanent stuff and curse/attack everything until they’re dead” while Shaman summoning skills are more complementary rather than core, with a tanky pet that does OK damage and a burst damage temporary pet.

Why don’t we need another pet mastery? We only have two classes for it, while melee and casters have plenty of support

I get it you don’t like summoners but they lacked diversity a lot more so than any other thing in the game

And considering the class has some form of WPS we can predict it’s skill tree might be similar to shaman

Summoners don’t lack diversity so much as there’s just other ways a summoner can be played, especially for people who seem averse to the idea of having summoned minions or who think “Ooh if I’m going to play summoner let me just get as many pets as I can so I can be greatest summoner evar.”

Who knows, the Necromancer might probably have a skill that allows him to bond his HP with his minions or something, basically turning them into meat shields while he does most of the monster slaying himself.
That’s something that seems more appealing to most players.

Well i am used to seeing an army so :frowning:

But i’ll accept anything as long as it’s good

I like this idea you present, would make pets useful to non pet builds

  1. Very interesting with good lore potential. I don’t have much to comment as really its all about new class combos and thats the main principle for excitement.

  2. I think it was always been a fan favourite (it was for me) of the D2 franchise. I think it will be a quick cash grab for blizzard and temporarily boost the population of D3 before it dips back to despair. I will likely play it as at this moment I don’t plan on investing anymore time into GD.

  3. Not applicable as I don’t hate the necro (love the damage type focus).

  4. moar aether support be nice.

  5. No, but there are far more issues that killed the fan base other than pixels.

Grim dawn has much more depth as a game in this style compared to d3. When I started playing grim dawn I saw that d3 is a superficial game in every aspect. D3 has no future.

I will say that the Grim Dawn one is the most favorable, but these two questions for me are difficult to give an unbiased answer for some reasons: I’ve never played Diablo 3 and I don’t have interest on it. For me, you need to experience yourself at least some hours in a game to form an valid opinion (there are exceptions like Sonic 06, just watching that game is a big recipe of “nope, get me out of here!”), so I don’t feel capable of giving one.

Although, I will say why I’m not interested on D3: from what I’ve researched about the game mechanics it seems that they had some neat ideas (like skill runes), but my impression is that they over-simplified the game to appeal to a more casual public. From what I know, for example, you can only assign 6 skills to 1 to 4 and mouse buttons, and every button is one category of skill. While in GD, you can assign from 1 to 0 and mouse buttons and can be any skill you learned, including item and component skills. So GD seems to be the one with most variety.

Just to mention though, I don’t think simplifying things and casual games are bad, just the extremes. I mean, even if GD follow D2 roots more than D3, it removed things like item repair that sucked up the fun of the game, which makes it a good example of simplification. As for casual games, well… If I want to play a game like this I would play something like Peggle, not dumb down a genre that I like.

I don’t hate it, I actually like it. To be honest I never thought they would implement it in the first place considering the lore and the choice between Kymon’s and the Order, but Crate already thought on that.

The hatred many people have seems justifiable though. I like summoning, but I don’t like to just watch, and most summoner classes incline to “I will just sit here and drink beer while my slaves kill that nasty thing with many eyes and tentacles”. It’s been an dilemma on ARPGs so far IMO, to try to balance summoning to be something challenging and fun.

To be good and interesting. And if it’s not from the start maybe it will be some patches later.:smiley:

Again, a tought one, for the reasons mentioned in 1 and 2. The necro on the image doesn’t seem to bad to me, but still, the GD one is re-inventing awesome so far.

Amazing. Crate however, suprised me more than Blizzard. Blizzard kept their Quality, Crate however surpassed/outdone themself - so yeah…

I never left Diablo 3 to begin with, and i’m not sure if they loosing their Fanbase, if you look how many Copies sold. The thing is, and examples like Diablo 3, Path of Exile and Grim Dawn shows us perfectly, what “modern” Gamers are. If you look at Diablo 2 period, of course it have gotten an Addon and Updates over the Years, but PEOPLE could enjoy the Game for what it offers and respected the Work behind it. Modern Gamers seems to have an small attention-span so they constantly need content shovend in their back, even if the “Content” -"“Quality” lacks. I mean - i don’t want to talk bad about Path of Exile, but as they announced 6 Arcs, it felt for me more like they are an Fast-Food-Chain which mindlessly throw content to their Fanbase, instead to offer less but with an higher Quality. Or - look at Diablo 3. I for one are happy aboust most of the Updates and enjoy the Content. The new Areas are amazing, however what does the Majority hype? That stupid carrot called Seasons… run through all the Content as fast they can and don’t enjoy what blizzard actually gives us. That tell the Mindset of modern Players and the truth is, people like us(the Grim Dawn Community) are pretty rare nowdays - atleast compared to the huge Casual and modern Gamer-crowd. So get my point straight: i don’t think it stands bad for “Diablo 3” or “Blizzard” if we talk about Population. I think what Blizzard might win back are classic Players like us, so they widen their target Audience a bit. I’m not sure if an “Class” helps - because in my opinion only an Addon could achieve that…

I don’t hate Necro, i for one find it as a great Addition. I can’t explain it, because its pretty hard, but if you ask me, with the Necro (in generall) they have outdone themself and set GD to an new Level.

I think the People who are against necro are mostly people who dislike “Meanstream”-Classes. And not because of something like Quality and such, but simply because they’re rebels who are against everything which is a bit popular.

Let’s say this. I yesterday saw the Necromancer on the DevStream… i don’t have anything i want or expect from the Mastery. It’s also amazing and can’t wait to get my hands on it.

And like i already mentioned, i can’t explain it - because its hard to express my feelings towards this whole thing. Let’s say it have alot of Blizzard-Vibe. And i don’t talk about the “obvious” Reason like -“because it’s necromancer which got popular in Diablo 2”. I talk about the whole Quality, Art-Direction etc. For me Necromancer(but also Inquistor showed the first signs) catapult the Level of GD up to an next one. Like to progress even further

I don’t care what “most” think about that. For me Diablo III was as dark as Diablo II. For me the Artstyle like Cell-Shading or Realistic doesn’t tell about how Dark and Atmospheric an Game is, it’s more about how it’s done. And compare Diablo III with Torchlight 2 or even the Ponylevel - that clearly shows “how” dark the Diablo 3 Atmosphere is. I think the real issue lies by the Players itself, who can’t get into this Artstyle and have more Problem to feel how Atmospheric the actual Game really is. Also i don’t find “Grim Dawn” darker than Diablo 3 or Diablo in general. I simply find its an complete different Atmosphere. That also applies already due the Setting, because Diablo is Dark Fantasy - while Grim Dawn have an way more modern Scenario.

Other Example: The Legend of Zelda - some People who played BotW might agree with me - it can be pretty atmospheric on Nights and certain spots, and even pretty dark due Bloodmonds. Also the overall touch like the enemybases with the Bones scattered and flies is something, which told me i shouldn’t let that play my nephews who are too young, because this is some mature topics/themes in this Game. But it doesn’t have an realistic Artstyle sooo…

Or Animes: People who dislike Animes will mostly find it childish and not mature. But if you are into Animes and watch such things like Hellsing, Higurashi and so on, you know there can pretty dark and atmospheric Animes which are only for Adults. Heck there was even one Anime which scared the shit out of me…

#In General:
I have to say the Necromancer(but also Inqusitor) makes me happy, but not because it is one of the most wished “Classes” - and not mine as well. Again i tell it, it’s hard to explain, so i hopefully there is no misunderstand. You’ve to know Grim Dawn is besides Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2 under my top 3 Hack’n’Slay. On PC clearly Grim Dawn(because for Diablo 3 i prefer Console-Version due offline playbility plus Local-Gameplay) and as someone who followed the Game nearly since the beginning, also was part of the majority of Early Access and so on, i saw the development from an pretty nice, potential Game, to one of the best in the whole Genre. Still in my Opinion, and that might be because they’re Indie-Developers (so less Budget etc) compared to Blizzard they quite don’t have the Quality-Standart and Iconic-State.

The Reason why the new Masteries makes me happy, is, because the different Vibe we get from them. It seems due their experience which they made due their Development with Grim Dawn, that now they can show off it even more with the Expansion, because this new Masteries also are(in my opinion) on an new Level (of Quality). The Necromancers really catches the Iconic-Feel but still with such an high Quality and this Class doesn’t seems off, like they simply throwed it mindlessly into the Game because it’s wished. There seems to be an vision behind it, so they adapt the Class as their own, unique “Necromancer” which fits Grim Dawn, while they even raise their level of Quality. So if they keep this up with the Rest of the Expansions, its not only new additional Content, but moreover raise the Quality of the overall Game. That’s pretty Amazing if you ask me, because a lot of Expansion or DLC’s doesn’t do that. They expand on Content, maybe offers new Features, but they keep often their Level of Quality and not progress further.

Q.1 What do you guys think of the previews of both masteries?

Diablo 3’s nothing exciting, inflated numbers same boring game not interested.

Grim Dawn’s Necro is over hyped, don’t really care for the class any more, haven’t had luck with pet builds in Grim Dawn thus far how will this differ…but I get a new act too so I’ll buy.

Q.2
Is the mastery enough to make you go back? (it’s paid ofc)

No, 4.99 max to maybe play the story mode to get his take then back to the riftablo the game is…still boring

Q.3 Why do you guys hate it & what else did you want?

The necro in D2 was the man till they nerfed him. long were the days of lagging up every game because you had a zillion summons. I think the occultist is close enough to a necro that a “necro” wasn’t needed. Rather have seen a traveler from the east with Samurai background (katana’s, chain whips, nunchucks etc.)

Q.4 What do you expect/want from the new mastery (GD)?

Don’t know I’m sure I’ll mess with both of them at one point but really want to make a few of my builds super OP

Q.5
Do you feel the addition of the new mastery and the previews have brought back the gothic feel to the game?

No the necro pak will do absolutely nothing for D3 except get a few hundred people back try it out then leave again cause the game is dull and boring at it’s core.

Diablo 3 related - Don’t care about this game anymore. Only will be interested in the Diablo universe if Diablo 4 is released by competent developers or an improved/expanded Diablo 2 is made.

D3 Necro - disinterest because of game that makes me bored and lose interest far too quickly. Reminds me of their “Tristram” event thing which was received with so much negativity.

Grim Dawn related - I would rather wait for more to be revealed before discussing the expansion in detail. Only concerns that I found was having skeleton archers as I’m not sure how they will be (too slow, poor aim, elevation issues vs projectiles).

Also with the hybrid skills that combine player and pet stats/damage I find to be a possible issue as hybrid pet builds to me aren’t favorable unless itemization becomes a lot more cluttered with more players stats mixed in with pet stats to offset the issue of player vs pet damage and support.

I will say that I like GD’s Necro artwork more then Diablo 3’s, but is also reflective of my dislike for Diablo 3’s cartoony/bright direction.

I watched the video of the stream and it was clear to me that the archers were way too slow. That will surely need to be adjusted before going live.

Agree totally. What kills the D3 art for me specifically is the Necromancer himself. Very cartoony and sadly it actually strongly looks like they ripped his likeness from some Castlevania art.

The skellies in the D3 art look fine. If you could even notice them in the glare of his emo-ness is a different matter tho.

Allminoxy did it proud for GD tho.

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Well the GD Necromancer picture also has some aetherial enemies in the background - one of which I don’t think we’ve seen so that’s a plus :wink:

its scary to think that the D3 necro might cost higher than the entire GD xpack itself:rolleyes:

See… And people thought Blizzard had lost their touch when all along they were hiding the horror right in plain sight.

Oh Blizzie poo. You keep doing you.

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The one with the canon - I think it’s part of Vanguard

How do you know it was specifically him?

^ Because Allminoxy mentioned as such in the misadventure thread :wink:

If you saw the dev stream (or just generally kept up with the information released) you’ll find that the GD necro offers far more than just pet build.

I have no interest in the raise skeleton build, but there are some other really cool skills and damage type synergies available that the Necro will add a lot of value anyway.

D3, well, rebadged frost nova, sweep, gargantuan, marked for death, zombie wall/charge (remember everything D3 is just based off weapon damage) and a few other bits doesn’t really add anything ‘new.’ i.e. You build a Necro, gear up, try all the skills because why not and that’s about it unless you like grinding paragon/GR’s.

Cuz. He has an armpit fetish.

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=494462#post494462

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