Having just completed the HC Classless challenge (A true honor!), fellow community member @MagpieMcGraw proposed a great concept for my next challenge- To start a new game in Hardcore Ultimate. There are a couple self-imposed rules:
SSF/I cannot use Shared Stash (Aside from the Merit to unlock Ultimate. Additionally, Blueprints are allowed, but I will be clearing the shared stash of all crafting materials etc and storing them on a Mule character for the duration of this challenge).
No accessing earlier difficulties at any time.
No GDstash.
And so, in honor of one of my favorite characters from one of my favorite card games that plays just like an ARPG PvP battle, I shall begin this challenge tomorrow night. The build will be based on Rhinar, Reckless Rampage, who’s Armory Deck also happens to release tomorrow! Starting class will be a Shaman.
This sounds like the Gorstak challenge from the Grim Dawn Community League a few years back. The league had a mechanic where you could access Ultimate game mode without a Merit. Obviously you will have to use a Merit to even get to Ultimate in Vanilla game. Another aspect of Gorstak is that you can only use a single class – which, to me, borders on the ridiculous as far as challenge intensity. I have personally tried this in HC with single class and duo class and am happy to report that I died quite successfully both ways!!
Good point, i updated the original post to reflect the Merit. Also Blueprints are allowed, but ill be transferring all my crafting mats out prior to game start to prevent crafting using shared stash mats acquired on other characters.
Single class isnt a stipulation for this specific challenge however its one that can certainly be introduced. That could perhaps be the next challenge after this one haha.
I wasn’t sure if I should say anything before you start. But since you are very attached to your characters, and they all seem to be unique, I think I should warn you of the dangers ahead…
Play normally at first, kill Kyzogg, collect 5 scrap, and return to town. This will get you to level 24. You’ll have like 40 skill points to work with. Now you have to make a build that works. You need damage and healing.
Avoid optional bosses and dangerous domains until you are good and ready.
Vendors offer good gear around level 24. You’re looking for Resistant of Vitality and Resistant of Mending. Don’t neglect acid res.
You can’t get aether, chaos or vitality res early on. So beware any heroes with those elements. If you see a troll, be afraid, be very afraid.
Briarthorns are very dangerous due to their ground spells. Mosquitos are extremely dangerous due to their bleed damage.
Pull enemies one by one if you have to. That’s how you beat totems early on.
Don’t go for Viloth until you have unlocked the blacksmith. He can make aether shards for the devotion shrine.
I’ve only beaten this once, although I came close a few times. Here’s my winning character at the end. Based on the skill points, I think this is after campaign and before entering SR. Scarlet 100
Thank you for the tips! I plan to spend a long time in lower crossing. Like, a LONG time, grinding XP very very slowly until i get a comfortable feel for the danger level from just the regular Walking Dead
While its true i get attached to my characters, after doing the HC Classless challenge, I have learned how to roll with the punches. Im also far less attached to class characters, as progression is far easier due to like 4x as many Attribute points, and access to a ton of passive stats from skills. Here, though, i wont have access to Devotions as early…
Of course I dont want to die since these runs will be SSF/No shared stash so no access to a stockpile of components or consumables. But if it happens, it happens. Im a true believer in HC being the best way to learn how to “get good” as you are forced to learn what kills you, when, and how. A lot of that comprehension has already been absorbed throughout my HC Classless journey. That said, this is going to be a very different experience in several respects, but thats exciting!
Im really pumped to play tonight, ive never tried to play this way before and im really glad you brought it up. Im really glad this community is so engaging with this stuff, it makes it that much more hype to experience the journey, knowing i can discuss it with you and everyone here! I just cant wait to get home from work later and fire it up!!! Ive got a couple other builds planned in my mind if this one dies.
The way I play, if one character dies I wont bring that character back- theyre dead. Thats how I treat my HC characters. Im also someone who builds heavily into theme, which means most of my builds wind up kind of memey, but thats by design and usually a flavor choice. In other words, if Rhinar dies, thats it- No more Rhinar builds, hes out of the challenge.
I usually avoid those until much later as well. Sometimes I get greedy, but you can get unlucky and die very quickly if you’re not super careful. So imho it’s not worth it till you’ve got most or all of your resists in order.
Rest is solid advice I think. You need a lot of patience Heroes and bosses have a lot of hitpoints and take a long time to kill. And sometimes if you don’t manage to accumulate enough damage output it might even be impossible to kill some of them.
100% agree- Just as I did in HC Classless, I will NOT be messing with Totems early. I already know ill be 1 shot six ways from sunday. Not falling for the temptation. I am going to play it slowwwwww. I plan to focus on Health and defenses first, as much as i possibly can. I dont even want to fight any monsters that deal Acid/Poison, Bleed, Fire, Ice, or Lightning damages at all until I have some solid resists.
My first month of playing this build may just be repeatedly killing that small group of Walking Dead that spawn immediately outside Devil’s Crossing, in that crater/broken house, and then exiting the play session, re-entering, killing them again, rinse and repeat. I am prepared to play that slow.
Ive got the patience, after completing the HC Classless challenge I feel like patience will not be a problem at all. Im used to a slog, the skill points are a huge dopamine hit thats absent in Classless. Even if its slow, there is a more potent reward than 1 attribute point and thats it.
There were some moments lile this in classless too- I already know any enemy heros that are regenerators essentially means dont bother trying, at least not until late game. If a boss takes a long time to kill, thats one thing… But if its literally impossible to do, thats another thing. Since its ultimate, I cant just go full defense, so i think the real challenge to this is going to be how to balance the build on a knife’s edge between offense and defense. In HC Classless you can afford to prioritize a defense heavy build. Im not sure if thats going to be possible to the same degree in this challenge.
You probably don’t have to play that slow, luckily Might want to be a little careful with the poison insects though. However, you’ll be leveling up quite quickly at the beginning, so might not take too long until you can whack them as well.
Early totems is kind of mastery dependent - some handle totems really well, some are hard passes. I won’t give any specific advice because it’s a lot of fun to figure out what the real threats in Act 1 are yourself, and what’s going to work and what isn’t.
Prepare yourself for some abilities you didn’t even know some monsters used
Also, you don’t need to be that afraid. A lot of the “prerequisites” for Ultimate don’t really apply at super low level - sure there are some monsters/attacks that are super scary, but it’s not like literally everything will one-shot you - that simply doesn’t happen.
Your plan there is a bit flawed. See, monsters level with you in Ultimate. By level 20 there’s gonna be every variety of zombie and aetherial waiting for you in Lower Crossing.
If you want power, you have to earn it. Wanna craft some dynamite? Gotta beat Krieg and unlock the Conclave. Want some faction gear? Gotta go to Arkovia. Getting further into the game unlocks devotions, MIs, relics.
Thanks man! I appreciate the hands-off guidance, as Im someone who loves figuring stuff out in my own and taking my own approach to situations.
Noted. Perhaps its my HC Classless PTSD, I just want to dip my toes in to get a feel for the power my enemies command! Haha. Ive lost too many beloved characters to under-estimating the power of enemies. But as suspected it sounds like ill need to play a little aggressively to ensure my power level matches the enemies as i level.
Thats fair, and if I havent migrated to regions where I cant get crafting materials and useful components, the power of my enemies will eclipse my own. Ive got some ideas though, am excited to experiment and see what i can learn!
Nice! How did all of that feel? What have you learned so far? Are you doing your skills different than usual? What enemies were scary? What threats do you anticipate in the immediate future?
For reference, here is my Chaos Witchunter build at level 24, just after Kyzogg.
It felt similar to Classless, but a bit easier in that im not starved for attributes.
In HC Classless, I cant stress enough how big of an impact the lack of Attributes challenges you to push beyond all other game knowledge. It is the single most difficult and brutal adversity to overcome, and so much depends on a true and complete mastery of assembling gear to properly equip a HC Classless build capable of surviving to level 100, and then pushing through Ultimate.
The ability to select a class here still feels a bit OP, as I havent had to worry about Attribute requirements for any gear a single time. The gameplay challenge is there, just like it is in HC Classless. I think the only big difference is the lack of access to Devotion Points, the Shared Stash, and Crafting, however these are proving to be simple enough hurdles to overcome. You just have to take your time and play cautious, which again- HC Classless is basically this, but more challenging.
Its fun! This is like a good half-way challenge between players who want a greater challenge than regular HC start, but arent ready to commit to the extreme challenge of HC Classless. Could also see it as a preference for players who dont have the patience to deal with Attribute starvation and/or lack of class skills and passives. To that point, I am really enjoying getting into character as Rhinar and fighting for survival as a Brute! So yeah, it feels great, Im having a blast right now. Thank you for suggesting this!
I would say there isnt much I learned so far. Pretty much everything im experiencing I already experienced in HC Classless runs. It helps that im already conditioned to maneuver, dodge, and strike when the time is right. Facetanking hasnt been my playstyle for many years so im used to the bob & weave thats required here and it feels comfortable.
Yes, actually, because Im not used to having any class skills to utilize! Haha. Im striking a balance between survivability and damage, my main goal is to secure resistances before i drop a deep investment into my offense. So far thats paying off pretty well. I just killed Viloth, and am pretty much just doing farming runs to try to roll some better gear. Currently my gear is all Poison/Acid res mainly because I was just now going after Viloth. I also keep getting 1 handed drops, which is not the route im going. Every Epic drop has been something my build cant use, so Im just farming a bit now before heading to the flooded passage.
There was a trio of Heroes from the corrupted shrine in that cave by Foggy Bank. I had to run from those bastards haha. Bleeding, Aether, and Acid/Cold damages all at once. But so far it hasnt been too crazy. None of the enemies have been able to crit me yet, or at least none that ive tried to fight. One of the main reasons i picked Rhinar to play as is because Shaman is flavorful for him, and Shaman class has inherent Aether/Pierce res, plus huge boosts to HP, HP Regen, reductions to Bleeding/Poison time, and Armor buff while also retaining good damage output.
My plan is to go for Berserker with my second class. It will fit the theme of Rhinar perfectly! Until then, ill just be filling out the Shaman skills, and if the character is still alive once the DLC comes out, ill respec into Berserker. Im very excited about this, its the perfect fit for Rhinar!
The biggest threat im facing right now is the shambler at the end of the flooded passage. Im going to read up on its stats, etc on grimtools before i engage it in battle. Need to make sure im covering all the bases, just to be safe. I suppose i could save up the resources im farming and build the bridge to bypass it. But thats not a very Rhinar thing to do! So fight it, I must!
Awesome, I love Occultist!!! Such a great class. Thats a great rare axe! Earthward is so awesome. Ill post my current build as of now below in an edit, along with some screenshots of the adventure thusfar…
Looking good. I’ve had a couple attempts with Shaman a while ago, and this was my 24 build. Shaman - Skills Only.
This one starts with 16 in Devouring Swarm, and then adds the melee stuff after. You can farm out a Troll Bonecrusher in act 1, in one of the cellars. Takes forever though.
I also tried cooldown ranged Primal Strike. It’s was okay, but really annoying due to low OA.
I see you skipped the quest enemies in Wightmire. They’re really not that bad. I usually do the zombies right away, but save the Wightmire devotion shrine until after the Shambler, when I have the blacksmith.
Not that big a problem. Just dodge his attacks And keep a potion ready in case you do get hit.
I think it’s doable before, but it depends a bit on what heroes spawn I guess. It can be a bit tricky. Usually I end up picking hem off one by one though. So maybe in HC it’s indeed better to wait a bit
Agreed, they just take a while early on, but since they’re alone it’s not that dangerous.
Heroes and bosses have a lot of hitpoints and take a long time to kill. And sometimes if you don’t manage to accumulate enough damage output it might even be impossible to kill some of them.
