Nothing nothing nothing3

[Ulvar1]

This will be very hard and have an unexpected broad effect, so I prefer some limits to ele-phys for rata. What do you think?

Like every item that has ele/fire/lightning to physical conversion should also come with same -% total retal damage as beronath swords?

[Norzan]

How about just nerfing Stoneguard directly and not touch any ele to phys conversion? Seems much easier and less damaging to the game.

[Zantai]

So you swapped out the Octavius chest armor for the helm, which means there’s no net change in the Conversion you are stacking.

Assume, for the sake of this hypothetical scenario, that you can only acquire % Elemental -> Physical on shoulders, shields and off-hands, or you take Beronath, which comes with Retaliation penalties.

I think that would have a more substantial impact on your Retaliation stacking.

I think adding Retaliation penalties to a select few items’ base stats would be a rather inelegant solution.

[The_Coyote]

If the conversion is the issue - the set likely would not even need a real nerf - only a bit of parasitic conversion, e.g. xx% elemental damage converted to y (not physical) damage)?

(that said, I have no real idea about retaliation builds and how the work)

[Norzan]

If the conversion is the issue - the set likely would not even need a real nerf - only a bit of parasitic conversion, e.g. xx% elemental damage converted to y (not physical) damage)?

And screw over non-retal builds that use this conversion in these items (i use those shoulders in some phys builds for the conversion)? Seems like a lot of hassle to just nerf one set.

Instead they could, i don’t know, lower the flat retal, % retal and the retal skill mods on the set.

[Ulvar1]

And screw over non-retal builds that use this conversion in these items?

What items of the stoneguard set is used on non-retal builds?

[Norzan]

What items of the stoneguard set is used on non-retal builds?

I wasn’t reffering to those, i was reffering the items with conversion.

[The_Coyote]

I meant adding some conversion to the stoneguard set itself (disclaimer: if this set is used outside of retal builds than the issue would still exist), so that this conversion is parasitic to the conversion from other items and decreases their value while not having an impact on the other items itself

[Ulvar1]

I wasn’t reffering to those, i was reffering the items with conversion.

It was pretty clear to me that this suggestion was referring to the stoneguard set.

[Norzan]

Ele to something else other than phys on a phys retal set would make no sense. Again, lower the retal on the set, done. These weird workarounds are more trouble and more complicated than just lowering values.

[Ulvar1]

Again, lower the retal on the set, done.

But that will penalize those that do not do not use elemental retal to begin with.

[Norzan]

But that will penalize those that do not do not use elemental retal to begin with.

And? It has been shown that NOT using the conversion is objectively the weaker version. By not using it you basically playing a gimped version. Should we now take into account weaker, less fine tuned versions of the same build?

[Ulvar1]

Should we now take into account weaker, less fine tuned versions of the same build?

We should probably take into account that one should not balance builds around “seraphim of thorns/blades” greens

[Norzan]

We should probably take into account that one should not balance builds around “seraphim of thorns/blades” greens

Yes, I was merely giving a suggestion if something has to be nerfed in this case, it has to be the set retal in my opinion. Weird conversion shennanigans and lowering the conversion of the items that are not part of the set is a bad thing in my opinion.

I mean, 3 minutes Calla for a retal build is kind of weak in my opinion and it doesn’t really warrant a nerf. I remember that phys Counter Strike Warlord with Sentinel of the Three doing 1 minute and change on Calla AFTER getting nerfed. So a retal build doing 3 minutes is fine.

[Ulvar1]

I remember that phys Counter Strike Warlord with Sentinel of the Three doing 1 minute and change on Calla AFTER getting nerfed.

You mean witchblade with fevered rage?

[Norzan]

You mean witchblade with fevered rage?

Yeah, that. I swear it was Warlord though.

[1.1.8.1] Physical Retaliation Warlord (3 builds, EoR included) -> Crucible 4:30-4:55/ SR 105-110/ Ravager 0:48-1:12 + Callagadra 0:54-1:33 + Crate boss facetank/ 75-76 farmer / Bonus SR 135 video with tank setup

1.1.9.0 Note - Do not worry, retal was not killed. Stoneguard is very strong still. For setups using Beronath sword - change weapon for it: https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12555 and take Octavius armor for conversion and no Beronath penalty. Hello, I’ve decided to update my old retaliation warlord for more all-round setup - previous one was only for SR pushing. Often I read a lot of myths about retaliation warlord how slow he is which is absolutely not true. It’s very fast, easy to play farm…

If this is fine, then Stoneguard is fine.

[XandeRoot]

Yeah, people cry about retal nerfs in patch notes, OP asks for more nerfs. What a bizzare world we live in.

[x1x1x1x2]

But that will penalize those that do not do not use elemental retal to begin with.

There is no such thing as a phys retal build that doesn’t have elemental retal in it. Chariot in itself is fire retal and that is enough to warrant conversion items on ALL phys retal builds. That’s unless you’re intentionally gimping your build. Show me a phys retal build without conversion that performs on par to those with it and maybe the discussion will take a different turn.

This is why I’m also against nerfing ele>phys conversion for the same reasons @Norzan mentioned. Because the only way to nerf those without affecting non retal builds is to introduce a penalty a la Beronath (which is OPs suggestion) which is rather inelegant considering there are a lot of them. And that kind of nerf hurts non stoneguard builds even more compared to stoneguard.

[anon94264551]

nothing nothing nothing

[anon94264551]

nothing nothing nothing