Overload and dots questions

Grim Dawn Gameplay Discussion
1

Crossposting from reddit…
So, i’ve read ryzel post on dots but i’m still confused. I know that the general rule for flat dot is that it applies on weapon damage skills and scales from it… And that the most powerful dot effect cannot be replaced by a weaker source of the same dot…

But i wonder, does overload apply a debuff on its own, meaning that the enemy will have a “overload” debuff (thus meaning that i will just have my highest damage type always on basically) , or it triggers off any weapon damage skill and it applies separate instances of dot damage derived from overload (meaning that, if i have a weapon damage skill with a cooldown higher than the dot debuff, i MIGHT keep one of my weaker damage type coming from overload applied) ?

So let’s say i have overload and use righteous fervor…

Will i apply just one “righteous fervor” debuff or two separate debuff? One “righteous fevor”+ one " overload"? So if i have multiple weapon damage skills, every single one of them will apply a dot/debuff?

Annnd since the damage type of overload is random but the highest dot applies and cannot be overwritten by a less powerful one… Does it mean that, on spammable skills at least, i’m sure that my “preferred” damage type is applied?

Say i have high burn damage and 0 electrocute and frost burn, the first hit of RF randomly rolls electrocute, the second hit is burn so the first debuff effect is replaced, then the third hit rolls frost burn damage… I will still keep the burn effect right? So basically i should always keep by burn damage, coming from overload, applied?

What about the interaction between rf, retribution and alladrah’s phoenix proc, using soulblade?

Will i just apply 1 mega dot called “righteous fervor” accounting the burn dmg of RF+overload+internal trauma converted to burn from retribution /soulblade +burn retalation damage applied by phenix proc OR each burn source will have its separate debuff?

I suck at math and i don’t even know if the final result changes but i’m curious…

This is probably not very clear but i hope it’s understandable :S

2

I’ll try to dispel any misunderstandings you have, but there’s quite a few in your post. Let’s start with this one above. DoTs only overwrite DoTs if they’re the same type of damage from the same source. Burn will never overwrite electrocute because they’re not the same DoT, but a crit from Blackwater cocktail (for example) will overwrite any non-crit burn you previously had applied from Blackwater Cocktail (because it’s higher damage and it’s the same type of DoT from the same skill).

You’re confusing yourself by calling overload a debuff. Overload is not a debuff, it’s a buff to your character that just adds DoT damage to your weapon. This DoT damage can be applied to an enemy any time you use a skill with weapon damage, like Righteous fervor. All attacks with RF will then have a chance to apply those DoTs from overload. Just don’t treat overload any differently from any other source of flat burn damage you’d be applying to your weapon.

All of your weapon’s burn damage is treated as coming from one source (your weapon itself), so it’s treated as one DoT source (I’m avoiding using the word debuff because that’s how you’re confusing yourself). If you have multiple weapon damage skills, they can all apply the overload DoT, but only the highest value of each DoT will be applied. So if you have a skill that does 300% weapon damage and another that does 40%, the DoTs from the 300% weapon damage skill will be higher, so they’ll overwrite those caused by the 40% weapon damage skill. This is because, in both cases, the source of the DoT is the same (your weapon), and as we discussed previouslu, DoTs from the same source only apply the highest DoT value. Keep in mind frostburn and electrocute will never be overwritten by burn or vice versa because they’re entirely different DoTs. If you’re not itemizing for electrocute or frostburn and if you have no way to convert them to burn damage, ignore those lines of text entirely, they’re not helping or hurting you in any way.

2 Likes
3

Nicely explained, thx! Follow up: If I convert all elemental to e. G. fire damage. Will overload provide me with a dot thrice as high or will each of the 3 fire dots just reapply themselves as I attack with rf?

4

If you found a way to convert all lightning/cold to fire, you’d get a DoT about thrice as high

Edit: to be more specific, the burn DoT from overload would be about thrice as high

5

Great, thx!

6

I don’t believe this is correct. At least not as long as these are correct:

Or it would be illogical. Overload adds to your weapon dmg one of the 3 values (“100% chance for one of the following”) but not all three no matter the conversion. And wpn dmg DoT is still wpn dmg DoT - same source.

But ofc skill description wording…

7

keep in mind that each pet’s base damage is it’s own damage source. Multiply by 3 and you can easily get a LOT of DoTs on your skeletons.

8

This is correct, conversion doesnt stack the DoT’s, just makes it so that if you roll frostburn or electrocute it will be burn instead.

9

Oh, thanks! I dunno why i thought each skil applied its own burn debuff (each applying a separate “icon” of debuff, looking at it from our character perspective).
So you basically have your weapon as source of the 3 separate dots… This mean that the RNG effect of overload are amplified amirite?
Say i use masterful korvan swiftness, which has 220% weapon damage and 4 secs CD.

Since the cd is higher than the dot duration if i roll electrocute or frostburn on overload damage i basically lost a good chunk of damage compared to when i roll burn damage on it…
As i said i’m not good at math but is that correct?

10

Actually this might be correct, sorry. You do get the benefit of triple DoT bonus from Overload on tri-elemental builds (at least when you deal wpn dmg often enough for all 3 lines to roll on one enemy). So if the conversion happens after, not before, total wpn dmg is calculated for a strike, then you get triple burn if you roll all 3 lines on consecutive strikes (if you convert 100% ele to fire that is).

11

As far as I know, this is correct. There are some other DoTs in the game that also only activate a certain percentage of the time For example, so you’re right that higher cooldown weapon damage skills might not benefit if you roll the wrong DoT

1 Like
12

It would be correct IF the 3 seperate rolls are counted as a seperate DoT effect for the purpose of applying DoT’s through weapon damage. And how it works with and without conversion. You’d assume that without conversion, you would be able to apply all 3 types since they are different, but if converted to one damage type like fire, ik might just see it as regular flat burn damage no matter which one it rolled and not being stackable because of it.
Conversion always happens first since its directly applied to your character and (unless its a temporary buff) is always active. Hence why if you look at your damage tooltips it already shows you what your actual base damage is including conversions.

13

Hmm. It seems someone should test overload in isolation.

I would tend to agree with Kriegor in that if you convert the damage, you essentially weaken the overall effect and do not stack the dot.

According to logic, each successful attack rolls a new overload value and it will only override if that converted new %wpn value is larger than the current %wpn dot value.

14

Sorry just one last question just to be completely sure…what about skills that have innate weapon damage and burn damage on its own?
Say i use Callidor’s fart+inferno… does it apply two separate dots, one coming from the weapon damage component (most likely overwritten by future weapon hits, our usual RF in the example we did) and another from the skill itself OR it just applies one dot which is the sum of the weapon dmg component+the burn damage of inferno?

Mah brain is not that good soz

15

Think the 1st would be true.
Still… “callidors fart”…?! xD !!!
You´re thinking of it as a fart? I think I´ll never get this picture out of my head now. Good thing i never liked the spell that much anyway.

16

They’re technically two separate DoTs (which stack together) but only one number will appear over the enemy’s head. But the duration of each might be different, so if you hit them once with Callidor’s and step back to watch the action, you might see the damage value over the enemy’s head get smaller as time passes due to your different burns having different durations. This is especially common to see with bleed builds, since some bleed DoTs have huge durations and can stack with small duration bleeds

17

Alright, so if i have multiple skills with built-in burn damage and some of them even have weapon damage on top of them, i will end up having multiple separate dots for each skills plus an additional dot tied to the weapon damage, which will always be the one from the harder hit (i.e. the one from the highest % weapon damage skill or one who critted).
I THINK i might have understood it.
Thanks again!

18

Yes that’s perfect :ok_hand:

1 Like
19

Ok Mister, maybe it wasn’t the last question… I’m still not sure on this one. If i use RF with retribution and have burn retaliation… In which can does this burn go? In the weapon damage one or in the righteous fervor one? From the wording i’d say to righteous fervor since retaliation damage should be applied not on the weapon damage component but to the attack itself…

20

%Retaliation damage added to attack is a seperate source that functions like %weapon damage. So burn retaliation applied through skills with %Retaliation damage added to attack only apply the highest one.
I’m not sure how actual retaliation (getting melee hit) works for this, but since its the same source (Your retaliation stat) I’d assume it doesnt stack. Someone who can correct or confirm that?