Petition to tone down mutators

So? Back in the day it was unbalanced, DA meta was cancer and days when Crucible was unbeatable were cancer as well. I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding about “builds that casually do 6-7 min.”. Those are chosen min-maxed synergetic builds, that you see posted in builds section. Most of the builds struggle in current Crucible.

I am a bit lost on what we were arguing about in the first place, to be honest.

My point was the difficulty in mutators hasn’t changed, but people’s expectation of what an endgame build should do changed.

Now this i can get behind. At least you wont be so fucked over by a random mutator set that directly countering your build. This plz!

That I have no problems with, I mostly test my builds in SR 65-66 nowadays anyway (besides Crucible). My point was that Shattered Realm is not good for measuring build’s strengths and weaknesses because of its random nature and unfair mechanics.

Also point that me and some other posters were making here is that SR is really no fun because of how random and unfair it is.

I also thought John_Smith’s idea was good. But then I realized it takes away even the option of restarting till passable mutators are guaranteed for the whole run. So I think it should change not every level but every 5 levels so you can still reroll and continue the run from the same level. And then every shard after 76.

Anyway, since mutators wont be fixed I got some ideas for new ones! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

  • STRIPPED: a random number of equipped items disappear
  • UNDEVOTED: a random number of selected devotions disappear
  • BLINDED: screen turns black at random
  • CONSCIENSIOUSLY OBJECTED: weapons turn unequippable (at random)
  • DRUNK: a random % chance to knockdown self for a random number of seconds on attack

I find that “leeching” makes SR 65 trivial for my pet conjurer. Monsters really can’t leech anything if they die so fast due to having 60 % less health. Is it the same for other builds?

On your suggestion: If you tone down mutators so much you might as well remove them from the game. Sorry but this feels like another “I wanna farm SR XX / Crucible 170 consistently an X is preventing me, so plz change it”-thread. :stuck_out_tongue: If there is a case to be made for something in the game to be unbalanced it’s probably mutators (not saying they are).

I made a similar assumption about TOUGHENED (+50%) and LEECHING (-60%) mutators but was corrected by Norzan and removed them from the list. Monster health is already +580% on Ultimate, and LEECHING makes it +520%.

Worry you not. I don’t wanna farm anything. I’ve been using GDStash since last year. What I want is for more people to have fun. So I’m presenting my opinion: more consistency, more diversity, less randomness. In my understanding, people have fun when they are being rewarded for their efforts, not punished despite them.

In my opinion there should be an option of removing mutators completely from Crucible in exchange for limited or no loot - but I know it’s a minority opinion catering to minority audience of build minmaxers and testers and I won’t even mention it again. As for SR, I never said such a thing. I think some mutators should be balanced because they are too strong. They force you to restart the game until your already struggling build becomes viable. Or not play such builds at all and only play oupies. Or go back to Cronley speedkills on Elite…

But I also said that some mutators are op. Strolling with a binder on EXPOSED is ridiculous (meaning great! everything just clicks with just enough downtime on active defense to make it interesting). Like before the Star Pact nerf. A single rng mutator turns a build upside down.

But mostly it’s about the weaker, struggling builds that are turned upside down in a bad way by the penalties.

And here we are again (and No, it´s not rhetorical):
Why are these builds considered “weak” or “struggling”?

  1. What´s the definition of these terms? “Weak/Struggling” as in “Can´t end campaign” (if reaching SR 60 is intended campaign end with getting last piece of set) or in “Constantly dying in Crucible”?
    Or does it mean “Can´t reach time X in Crucible”?

  2. Are the mutators the real problem or the builds themselves? Are they considered “weak/struggling” and there is room for improvement especially on the defensive side? And if not shouldn´t be items/devotions/etc. be improved to solve these problems and not mutators?

I’m talking about builds like 2h chaos Cadence (undone by AETHERMARKED, TAINTED and CORRUPTED), vitality EoR or Primal Strike or any kind of vitality melee (again AETHERMARKED+TAINTED), lesser infiltrators like Silver Sentinel melee hybrid (gone with WEAKENED and EXPOSED), lesser S&B battlemages that can’t outdamage Kuba (with AETHERMARKED on Cadence, SHATTERED, ARMORED, WEAKENED), etc. And all kinds of beginner builds that struggle before they can complete the sets. But also about the very top tier builds that have huge performance shifts due to some mutator combinations that together with stacking of buffs and debuffs can lead to sudden one-shots on tanks, immortal Valaxteria or invincible healer mobs (the mutator that gives monsters 25% cdr, what was it?).

Sure, mutators make gameplay more diverse, unpredictable and “full of adventure,” and should by all means stay. But like all things in the game they should be balanced.

I sense a little tension here. Also, reminds be of the usual Forum Drama:

ML: But Crucible times are very slow…
Z: Can it kill Warden & Cronley?
ML: Well… yeah… but…

(sorry to go ahead use the initials of a certain prominent builder who often provides a lot of endgame feedback)

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Just a little bit nicking because of… :wink:

But it is an earnest question, too:
If there is a build which can reliably (let´s say 9/10) complete Crucible in 10:00 minutes…would you consider it “weak/struggling”? Sometimes I get exactly that impression here in forums.

Good question. But builds don’t “just struggle.” They often struggle with certain things. And there are mutators further gimping some of those things to an extent that I consider too much.

So, AETHERMARKED is nothing for classic Belgo but a gamechanger for vitality EoR (got no attack speed on a skill that’s all about attack speed.) But even Pyran who got strictly top tier damage - but needs to briefly facetank stuff for Mortars - gets a solid kick in the arse by EXPOSED and that -100 da mutator. To the point it’s almost unplayable in Crucible (unless wearing 8 MIs).

On that note, have we ever gotten Fabius/Zantarin/Ironmaiden loot back to at least pre-nerf levels?

I guess, 2H? But is it really a problem of the mutator or a general 2H-problem (discussed since dawn of time) ?

We both know, Pyran won´t survive this week in its current version. Iirc in one of the last threads it was discussed how it should be changed. Correct me but weren´t it tenor, that the insane amount of OA should be reduced in favor of DA/Health/Physical Resistance…short, defense?

Sad, I hope it’s not going into defensive too much. :frowning:
I actually like the suicidal style of pyran. Bring more flavor to the game

Well, that´s a problem here.

You want it “suicidical”, ya1 want it more “consistent” (aka “not ruined by mutators”) and we have a under 5 min Crucible build with this set. :wink:

Wow, ok. It certainly didn’t feel like that. I must have benefitted from other mutators favoring fast kills at the same time. :thinking: Thanks, fo pointing that out.

I can relate somewhat, but I’m basically with Rhylthar and what he’s said above. Even if some of the mutators were changed there will still be (less) builds that struggle (or struggle less). That’s just their inherent randomness. Take that away with balancing and they will become meaningless.

100% agreed. So far the whole SR experience was more frustrating than fun to me.

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Move the drama to its own thread…it has one now…

shouldn’t that cursed thread be in off the topic? :stuck_out_tongue:

I knew it! All those nerfs… all those lies about the health of the game… was nothing but BUDGET CUTS!


Okay, now that I laughed at your jokes, any chance for maybe -15% armor on Exposed?

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