Looking at Demolitioner’s skills, he has physical damage on Explosive Strike, Temper and bonus to physical on Fire Strike with fire damage on Fire Strike, Brimstone and burn on Explosive Strike. Fire and physical go hand-in-hand, so it seems intended to do a fire/phys build. Justicar set supports this too.
But the problem is there’s no really good weapon for this build. I’ve been relying on greens pretty much the whole playthrough.
I’ve also run a quick test on those weapons (all weapons augmented with Creed’s Cunning and oleron blood, one blood for dual one-handers).
Gavels have the same DPS as two Kilrian’s Skullbreakers (18.1k on gavels vs 18k on breakers) without any affixes, beating them only by 70 OA. Elite Solar Edge is better and it’s pretty much pure fire weapon. One-handed options are really bad, with two-handers it’s a bit better, but with flat damage on both Temper and Flame Touched Demo seems more suited to dual wield.
Massacre lost to everything (11k DPS), without gaining any significant OA advantage. It has the same DPS as Archon’s Warmaul without any affixes.
Incinerator is surprisingly good (15.3k DPS, 2.3k OA).
For a legendary Brimstone is meh. It got 16k DPS and 2350 OA.
And an Officer’s Archon Warmaul of Fury (Stashed). 16.3k DPS and 2450 OA.
Now a kitted out green SHOULD compete with a purple, but the problem is, a simple Epic competes with it just as well.
With Kraken Brimstone goes to 20k DPS, Incinerator goes to 19.5k, and Officer’s Archon Warmaul goes to 20.5 DPS.
Emp. Massacre is garbage, idk it’s supposed to be just right for the build, but it loses to non-empowered Prismatic Eviscerator, which is an item 18 levels behind (58 vs 40). It’s linked to the fact that attack speed is the best way to increase 2h-ers DPS, therefore 2hs without innate attack speed go into trash bin (assuming LMB builds ofcourse).
Out of potential candidates for a late game weapon you missed the Elite Solar Sledge. It’s worse than Infernal Brimstone, so I’d guess it’s on par with Incinerator.
As for Infernal Brimstone, not having any flat fire has nothing to do with it looking somewhat weak (because to be honest flat is usually pretty insignificant on 2hs), it just has surprisingly low base damage (190 damage, compare it to Stonefist rebuke, which has 278.5 base damage and 30-54 flat). On the other hand, Infernal Brimstone has the highest attack speed bonus in the game and +2 demo skills, which is huge. Well, maybe a buff to base damage is justified, idk - haven’t got enough experiece with 2hs.
Unless Archon’s got of Alacrity/of Rifthound/of Fury I don’t see it coming close to neither Solar Sledge nor Infernal Brimstone.
Also it would help if you told specifics about your setup. At first I thought it’s some sort of unbuffed setup, but then you mentioned comparing without Kraken…wat? How do you even reach 16k dps without Kraken? On the other hand, if 20k DPS is your buffed high-end setup then it’s very low. I have 23.5k buffed DPS in pretty much faction gear + Emp. Beronath + Enchanter’s Insignia, not even at level cap + defensive devotion setup.
This is my current setup. Right now I just went “screw it” and stashed myself two rings for maximum dps and solael-sect pants. Previous setup had Vigorous Imperial Ring of Supremacy, Resistant Cronley’s Signet of Supremacy and Stonehide normal pants of Vitality. Also no consecrated wrapping and chains of oleron (unholy inscription and sanctified bone instead). For devotions I have Dryad, Assassin’s Blade without OA point, Viper, Fiend, Jackal, Hawk, Scholar’s Light, Magi, Solael’s Witchblade, Giant up to Giant’s Blood, one point in Revenant and Ulzuin’s Torch without Burn point. For test I specced out of Blade and Dryad and took Kraken with Eel.
Yeah, I just decided to do a quick test, so it was kind of weird. I forgot to buff up with pneumatic breath, though with 2-handers you can’t spam it that much and you’re sort of supposed to save it for heal. Active buffs were Vindictive Flame and Flame Touched. I also did not put point in 2-handed transmuter on FS for two-handed testing, but since it affects only total damage, it shouldn’t seriously affect results. I think with those two in effect I’d get the difference of 1.5K dps between highest point (Warmaul) and the worst (Incinerator). Still not much.
Funny how I remembered Solar Edge, but not Solar Sledge.
Flat fire on Brimstone could compensate it’s low base, but it doesn’t have any.
Edit: I’m not sure, but I think I reached somewhere around 28-35k DPS with 2-handed spec (no DW passives, brimstone), self-found gear (aside from Earthbound Warmaul of Fury) and old Explosive Strike, when it counted for DPS.
Well, Saboteur isn’t the most suitable character for 2H Phys/Fire. I for one assumed we’re talking about Commando.
What do you mean transmuter doesn’t matter? If I despec it my sheet DPS goes down from 23.7k to 19.5k. It’s important to mention that your data is w/o transmuter.
Also I do have Brimstone, which is probably why I have similar DPS despite my build being pretty undergeared and defensive devotion setup (Kraken, 3 in Obelisk, 5/6 Tree of Life, full LoE, Solemn Watcher, Ulo, Crane, Scholar’s Light, Eel, 2 Crossroads (green, yellow)).
EDIT: also, I use Kilrian’s Shattered Soul instead of Oleron’s Chains
I meant it doesn’t matter for the difference BETWEEN those three weapons. As in, Incinerator has 95% of the DPS Warmaul has. Multiply both by 21% (since transmuter just multiplies the total damage), Incinerator will still have 95% of the DPS Warmaul has.
Edit: Okay, I was pretty much right. Specced out of DW, maxxed Brimstone, put some more point in Vindictive Flame, took Kraken, put on old non-perfect rings (vigorous of supremacy, resistant cronley’s of supremacy). DPS with Flame Touched/Temper, Vindictive Flame and Pneumatic Breath active :
Incinerator 32.3k DPS
Brimstone 35k DPS
Warmaul 35.2k DPS
The difference betweens weapons is barely there.
Brimstone and Archon’s are too weak (both of them?! unlikely, but possible)
Incinerator is damn good (likely)
Build is inconsistent or 2H Fire Strike is weak (a seemingly better weapons not altering DPS much is a sign, so very likely)
To be honest, I’m most interested in #3. Because if you decided to compare two weapons you’d better do it in best possible conditions. E.g. I could take a 2h savagery elementalist, compare Stormseeker Sabre against Crystallum and Stormheart and find out that they aren’t that different, while a DW character could probably tell the difference. You might be right and it’s #1, but unless you rule out #3 your data is not worth much, imo.
P.S. 9k vs 10k and 45k vs 50k is both only 10% difference, but I’ve yet to see someone complaining that a 5k DPS increase is too little.
EDIT:
Edit: Okay, I was pretty much right. Specced out of DW, maxxed Brimstone, put some more point in Vindictive Flame, took Kraken, put on old non-perfect rings (vigorous of supremacy, resistant cronley’s of supremacy). DPS with Flame Touched/Temper, Vindictive Flame and Pneumatic Breath active :
Incinerator 32.3k DPS
Brimstone 35k DPS
Warmaul 35.2k DPS
The difference betweens weapons is barely there.
That’s much better!
Then it’s #2 I’d guess.
EDIT2:
Anyway, what kind of difference you would consider right?
About difference, my experience is kind of skewed, I have only one lvl 85 character right now and I already had Warmaul that is close to the current one, so when I found the Brimstone and it gave me less DPS than Warmaul (it was old version and different setup) I was disappointed. But this is a skewed experience, maybe someone who had simple green or Shar’Zul Furnace would get Brimstone and think it’s the best thing ever. So the power difference between epic and legendary is interesting question, but I am not sure I can answer it.
I think it may have something to do with amount of flat damage in Fire Strike line and Flame Touched. In my build I counted approximately 5100 damage is from flat bonuses (to weapon damage and to fire strike). Fire Strike deals 11k-14k on hit, so about 40% of damage comes from skills. Soldier WPS might make difference between weapons more important, but it doesn’t show that in DPS tab, so it’s not obvious.
I do find burn on Brimstone weird. Isn’t consensus that aside from bleed and poison, DoT builds suck? So replacing flat damage on weapon with DoT doesn’t work. Speaking of legendary with burn, there’s also Hellborne which is quite similar to Brimstone. Low base damage compared to other legendaries with burn to “complement” it, non-set item, attack speed, +2 to Demo.
We’re missing the elephant in the room though, which is choice of one-handers, for 2-handers we at least have weapons to talk about. Which is shame, since with DW tree and no Brimstone (the skill, I don’t have points for it in DW build) I actually could use something with nice weapon damage. Aside from already mentioned Elite Solar Edge (nice), Gavel (bad), Herald of Ends (bad), Kilrian’s (nice, but a bitch to get with right affixes) there’s Hellclaw Slicer (which just perplexes me. Inferno and Hellfire? Someone just picked skills based on their name?) and three swords (Ortus, Grim Fate, Empowered Flame Brand). I just threw all swords together, because with DW piercing really adds up and eats your physical damage.
Speaking of legendary with burn, there’s also Hellborne which is quite similar to Brimstone. Low base damage compared to other legendaries with burn to “complement” it, non-set item, attack speed, +2 to Demo.
Yet Hellborne is considered to be one of the best rifles.
We’re missing the elephant in the room though, which is choice of one-handers, for 2-handers we at least have weapons to talk about. Which is shame, since with DW tree and no Brimstone (the skill, I don’t have points for it in DW build) I actually could use something with nice weapon damage. Aside from already mentioned Elite Solar Edge (nice), Gavel (bad), Herald of Ends (bad), Kilrian’s (nice, but a bitch to get with right affixes) there’s Hellclaw Slicer (which just perplexes me. Inferno and Hellfire? Someone just picked skills based on their name?) and three swords (Ortus, Grim Fate, Empowered Flame Brand). I just threw all swords together, because with DW piercing really adds up and eats your physical damage.
For some reason I thought that sabos go with either dual Firestarters (black legion faction dagger) or Firestarter + Warpfire. 1h/DW is different from 2h in the respect that total flat bonuses from skills/devotions/gear will easily exceed the base weapon damage, therefore they should be less reliant on quality of weapons themselve than 2h builds. Pretty much 1h win from attack speed a lot as well, but care much less about base weapon damage.
I guess that means that Shar’Zul is just too good. 40% of damage being independent of my choice of TWOHANDED weapon still seems too high, but I’m saboteur, so it’s not the best representation.
That’s the thing, there’s Nightblade who focuses on pierce and cold, and there are axes and swords with pierce and cold bonuses and conversion. There’s Shaman who focuses on lightning and physical or physical/bleed. There’s also Nightblade with pierce/acid. Those types are supported by weapons. But for Demo it seems like you go either phys or fire.