Eh… That’s not a great comparison in the gaming industry anymore. Rattle off a list of gaming companies… Then rattle off which ones out of that list are noted for listening to their players. Second list is going to be far smaller. Add in that most companies are actively bad about listening to players… Better than bad doesn’t mean good, per se, it just means it isn’t as bad.
Shrug. I get the same way when someone tells me “That’s a good price for gas!” No. No it isn’t. It’s less bad. It’s still significantly bad, it’s just not as bad as it could be or has been in the past. That doesn’t make it good.
I do wonder what you consider “good” listening to players, since the implication seems to be that we are not good at it?
Cause I’ll tell you right now that most players are not as good at game development as they think.
I personally read almost everything that passes through the Grim Dawn discussions and feedback sections. This doesn’t mean we can make everybody’s dreams come true though.
It’s funny you mention this cause it’s a topic we’ve discussed before over drinks.
It used to be that communication with game developers was super rare, so getting to speak to one was this “oh shit!” moment.
Nowadays, with forums and social media being so widespread, there is an expectation of maintaining active communication at all times, and if you don’t engage with the player base across all channels, you are not doing enough.
Yet somehow being polite is only expected to be a one way street. :eek:
I do kind of get why though. Some people get very invested in games and seeing them changed in a way that harms their vision, or an anticipated release that ends up below expectations, can be seen as an attack on something they really care about.
I think the funniest thing here is lol… Players don’t get what they want and immediately say devs are not listening to players. Well, guess what, there are more players than yourself and everyone wants different things.
How can “listening to the community” even work if the community has thousands of different opinions?
I think if I would be dev, I would be grateful for every good idea and constructive feedback but at all times I would not change my (or the dev team’s) vision of the game.
Merken
Agreed Home. And the devs have listened to input going right back to the beginning when they asked for opinions on what the name of the starting town should be. If they like an idea/suggestion and it fits with their vision of the game and it’s technically/financially possible then I’m sure it gets serious consideration. Ultimately they may not go with it, but to say they don’t listen is just plain hogwash.
Taking an interest is nice. Hard to show, though. Devs can’t comment in every feedback thread… Yet, while they say they read them all, without those comments, it’s hard to take on faith. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t… Nobody can actually tell. Unless the Devs take a player’s idea/suggestion, visibly, there’s no way whatsoever to tell if they’re taking an interest in the player base’s opinions and thoughts. Yet they can’t really take too many of them, because most of them just aren’t good/feasible/worth the time and effort.
It’s a twisted road to walk. Can’t say as I’ve seen any company manage it well, and not just in gaming. There’s a reason PR firms exist, after all.
Are you ever going to stop beating this dead horse, you have this right bee in your bonnet that Crate don’t read the forums, how many more time to you have to be told this isn’t the case…hell you’ve even had replies direct from the devs and yet you still insist on claiming that it’s all BS.
Just pack it in will you… Just because Crate don’t say that you’re the god given expert and that every comment of yours should be implemented you keep claiming this BS…:furious::furious::furious:
Whoa… Where did this come from? I just said, I’ve no idea if they do or not. There’s zero way to tell, unless you’re in the habit of just taking their word for it. Except, you know… They’re strangers on the internet. Who does that?
I’m a naturally suspicious person. It’s served me well so far. I don’t know if Crate does or doesn’t… But I do know that even if they do, they can never prove it. That’s what that post you quoted was about.
As for ideas to be implemented…What ideas? I don’t post idea threads, I just reply to others. I don’t expect or desire Crate to see me as any kind of expert, and I’ve never said anything of the sort. I do disagree with them at times, but that’s only natural.
Maybe you’ve been mixing with someone else. Or reading implications into what I’m saying. For the record… I’m not stupid enough to imply things in text. Especially when people from multiple countries are involved. Implications change even within one country, they are absolutely useless in formats like this. If I haven’t specifically stated something… Then I’m not stating it at all. Get it?
Frankly if you feel like that I’m surprised you even belong to a forum. Technically we’re all strangers. Does that make Medierra or Zantai’s comments less real and true than mine or Jaknet’s or yours? I get your point that people can say anything on the net. That’s true, but it would take a couple of very dedicated trolls to pretend to be Medierra and Zantai all these years. Plus trolls usually want to stir things up, not provide answers to fans’ questions/ideas/suggestions. Pretty untroll-like behaviour if you ask me.
I can give you 3 early examples of the devs listening to fans’ opinions. They sought the fans’ views on the starting name of the town (Devil’s Crossing turned out to be the favourite), what sort of additional environments fans would like to explore (Abandoned Waterfront) and whether personal riftgates should remain in place once they were summoned or disappear as they do in TQ once you teleport back. The first two were dev started threads, can’t remember if the riftgate was as well or whether that was fan started. In all cases the devs not only responded, but acted on fans’ viewpoints. If that’s not real enough for you then that’s your problem, not the devs.
You say you’re not implying, yet you are. You’re implying Crate doesn’t respond when it’s clearly obvious that they do.
I don’t belong to many forums, but on GD and the other gaming one I do belong to I get the impression that most gaming companies don’t listen fans, let alone reply to any of their posts on official website forums. Yet you’re still unhappy that Crate doesn’t respond to every thread/post made. Honestly, if they did that they’d never have finished the game and would be unlikely to finish the expansion. :eek:
Crate read threads, they listen to fans and they reply when they think they need to. They even take time out of their working day to stream on Twitch for the fans once or twice a week, either one of the devs playing GD (Grava usually) or showing new content. If that’s not enough then I suggest you see if you can find a better forum where the devs will reply to every comment you and everyone else on the forum makes. Good luck with finding one.
Finally, if you still don’t believe then just look back through the threads in the Developers Discussion section of the forum. Lots of evidence there of Crate seeking fans’ views on all sorts of things, even down to the name of a mastery.
Yet you ignored that and threw around random implications anyways.
If you track this conversation back, you’ll find that I responded to a post claiming the Devs read every feedback thread. I observed, correctly mind you, that they might or might not, but there was no way for them to prove it without commenting in every thread. As commenting in every thread would be… unreasonable, at best, it’s an unprovable assertion.
If you feel unable to believe what the devs tell you then I guess you don’t believe there’s an expansion on the way either. Sorry, but you can’t pick and choose. You either have faith that what the devs tell you is true regarding what they on the forum or you don’t.
I think there are some misunderstanding here… I don’t think Sheepster implied that devs don’t read forums or don’t communicate with people, this is obviously false.
What he did imply, in my opinion, is that it’s UP TP THEM to decide for the upcoming updates the players suggested AND incorporating their own, which may or not may collide with players’ interests.
I didn’t say I DIDN’T believe them. I said it was something they could never prove. I don’t automatically assume they are telling me the truth, no… But that doesn’t mean I don’t believe the expansion is coming. The expansion has to be coming, or there’s going to be trouble. Reading the threads? Who’d ever know? Can’t be proven one way or another. They aren’t idiots, you know. What kind of idiot lies about something that they will 100% be caught in? No, people only risk lying when they believe they can’t be caught. Now, I don’t know if Crate is or isn’t lying… And frankly I don’t care. I come to these forums to interact with players, not the Devs.
I implied nothing. I did just mention that I don’t imply things. I definitely didn’t imply either thing… Especially because I was not implying anything, because implications simply do not function well over the internet, especially in an international, text only setting.
No no, they CAN… But implications vary just from one state to another, much less one country to another. One phrase may imply X in New York, Y in Texas, and Z in New Zealand… And over the internet, you’ve no idea who you’re really talking to unless they’ve specifically told you. Even if you do… I live in New York. I have NO idea what the different implications would be outside of the few states I’ve actually spent enough time in to learn that.
Yes, they’re there, and sometimes they work on the internet… Other times, people end up thinking you’ve implied something wildly different, and sometimes offensive. I prefer not to rely on something that is inherently unreliable, especially for communication.
Ah, I see what you mean. Add to this the fact, that more and more people are becoming dumber and dumber with the lack of proper education, retarded state policies, etc. and you get what you get. Definitely agree there now.
