The order of events for Conversion is as follows: Base Skill > Skill Modifiers > Conversion on the Skill or Transmuter > Conversion on Equipment and Buffs > Equipment, Auras and Passives
This was true when it was written, before the introduction of item skill modifiers in the Ashes of Malmouth expansion, because at that time, “Conversion on Equipment and Buffs” was synonymous with “global conversion.”
However, it is no longer true: A lot of “Conversion on Equipment” these days comes in the form of item skill modifiers to specific skills. This conversion happens simultaneously with conversion from transmuters, before global conversion (see testing here and here).
This outdated info in the game guide frequentlycausesconfusion among new players over on the subreddit.
Could this section of the Game Guide be updated to reflect the true order of damage conversion in the game?
Base Skill
Skill-Specific Conversion from Transmuters or Item Skill Modifiers to Skills that Deal Damage
Global Conversion on Equipment and Buffs
Armor Piercing
(That second one is a mouthful, and I would endorse any better and more succinct way to describe the category!)
if you wanna be a tiny bit pedantic you could say it’s still correct since it says “or transmuter”,
and direct skill modifier is basically transmuter level conversion hence why they happen at the same time/priority level as ones directly on the skill
or you could consider direct skill modifier conversion on item to still be “conversion on the skill”
imo it’s not so much that it’s needed to update the wording to account for “new” skill modifier conversion, as it is the entire paragraph that could do with some rewording overhaul; since even at a basic level it still confuses the snot out of many people and beginners
The base skill and its modifiers are tallied (ex. flat damage or % damage of that type), then converted by conversion on the skill (item modifiers) or transmuter (mastery tree).
I agree and acknowledge that this is how the game actually works. I know you don’t need me to tell you what the order of conversion in your game is.
I’m saying that because the conversion order works the way it does, “Conversion on Equipment” is a misleading way of describing the category of conversion you’re gesturing at in that step. A whole lot of conversion that’s on equipment isn’t in this category (which wasn’t true before Ashes of Malmouth)!
Even something as simple as adding a parenthetical to the third item so it says Conversion on the Skill or Transmuter (including from item skill modifiers) and adding the word Global to the beginning of the fourth item would make things much clearer.
I think this is extra bad for new players because item skill modifiers are so common on Monster Infrequents, which are the game’s way of improving the new player experience by giving them strong, target-farmable gear. “Help, I’m confused about conversion order” is like a top 2 all time new player classic, along with “Why do I keep dying? And unrelatedly, what are resistances?”
(and even that explanation isn’t 100% accurate, since i didn’t bother to include item modifier conversion to a buff; with a note saying that’s also just regular global, and oh only applies to player not party or true pets in aura range)
of all the sections in the game guide, it’s the paragraph on conversion that requires the most effort to convey to the people that didn’t already have their Grim Dawn PhD
-and it’s so mega confusing i’ve even had discussions/interactions with GD veterans on “how it’s supposed to be interpreted” and what the order of operations really was/is,
some people think the skill modifier notation means it supersedes direct skill conversion on items instead of happening “at the same time”
Right, and I didn’t mention that conversion out of elemental is separate from conversion out of individual elemental types, or that the “conversion” on Scion of Dreeg isn’t really conversion, yadda yadda.
I’m not saying Crate must explain in detail every single weird little edge case on this page. Just please, for the love of Empyrion, change it so that you no longer have categories listed like:
Conversion on Equipment and Buffs
…that doesn’t actually include all of the conversion you find on equipment, and:
Conversion on the Skill or Transmuter
…that doesn’t actually include all of the conversion you find on transmuters!
