In my experience it’s mostly tied to Oleron’s Rage.
Could probably just add reflect resist to that skill.
But I would also not shed a single tear, if the “reflect” mechanic was dropped altogether in favor of sth more interactive.
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it didn’t used to be the same level of mandatory outside trauma build
but builds only getting 5-12% phys res now after sources got removed or reduced is probably a large contributor.
point was it it didn’t use to be the same level of imbalance when you got 50% phys res on phys builds before.
it’s an awareness mechanic, which is much easier to deal with in MC content unlikes SR/Cruci fighting 500 clusters in 0.3seconds.
It’s not really that complicated in most cases, says the scrub pilot not dying to reflect every 5secs.
and you can also suicide on non phys builds, they just have to be heavier hitters, but they don’t have trauma too.
I’ve suicided on both SS and Doom Bolt, but phys mechanics is different as is build attention tho; and availability. (the reflect res is funnily almost nowhere in magick devos)
i don’t think anyone truly cares about it that deeply, nor even if people seem to contstrue my “you skipped every available source” remark as such 
this tbh
The way it’s currently implemented makes it feel like a gimmick/mechanics bloat that punishes phys builds disproportionally.
Sorta, but for example Warborns never had a lot of phys res to begin with. And it was still a gimmicky mechanic targeting Phys builds mostly.
You can but it’s night and day compared to Phys builds. Having 80%+ resist to your damage compared to 10-30% you get on most phys builds is a big difference.
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not disputing that, but i also think it was more coincidental/collateral than deliberate, (hence the reflect available in right side devos happening so late in game update)
i speculate if Crate really wanted to hate on phys builds reflect wouldn’t be a primary MC mechanic where it’s easier to suicide on non phys builds earlier/levelling, and phys builds be more impacted at end or for trauma specifically.
Because during MC/normal-Elite it’s super easy to get a ton of magick dmg to suicide reflect vs your own hp pool if not paying attention to spike auras
So seems more like it’s one of those old school awareness features/“look out or die” interactions.
Eg ala diablo 2 cold enchanted/death splosions no one liked either 
D2 had it’s own reflect-death with Oblivion Knights and Iron Maiden (I think? - details a little hazy in my memory). That was melee-only, iirc.
At all events, I don’t at all mind an awareness check, but I think the same level of awareness should be required, regardless of the damage type you choose.
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physical dmg interaction just being inherently different is probably just what complicates that.
Like, if phys res was easily solved at 80 res, would we be here? so they added reflect res instead to compensate for that
That’s also what i meant with deciding to skip all sources of it. Because one thing is not having the means to deal with it, or it sucking thoroughly afterwards engaging with said tools/mechanic, but it’s a slightly different matter to refuse to utilize the compensation tools at all “even if slightly less optimal than peak bezt build setup”
If you had a Lightning Build and only ran around with 27% Lightning Resistance, you’d probably be clapped by the same white mages in MC as well.
It’s the function of Armor not making up for the lack of 80% Physical resistance that’s found in all the other types. Raising Max Bleeding Resistance and reduced Bleeding duration (for Dryad constellation) helps a ton for Bleeding builds when you hit a Reflect monster, but Physical damage simply doesn’t have the defensive numbers to adequately compensate for that, and no, Armor doesn’t make up for it. 3,500 Armor Physical builds I’ve played feel squishier than <2,000 Armor Magical Mages.
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is armour even recounted per individual phys source on reflect? legit no clue if reflect skips that or if it works proper in “reverse” return to sender
Either way, when cadence hits 500k or a mill or whatever, i don’t even know how much armour we be needed to make up for it sans high res
Someone care to try math that out?
That’s what i’m saying about
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Yes, but while there are sources of reflect res, it’s way way rarer than resists to other damage types. I mean, if I need cold or acid or vit or whatever res I can get a ton of it very easily. Reflect res, not so much.
I think it might be better if reflected damage bypassed resists (so as not to selectively penalize phys) but was tuned so that it didn’t instakill you. However, if you pay so little attention that you keep attacking a reflective mob then it’s fine that it kills you.
Or leave it as now but add reflect resist to certain MI affixes and augments.
Or just get rid of it. Maybe that’s better.
Always had a creeping suspicion top builders don’t play the game beyond GDstash.
Ascended difficulty intends to turn mapping into endgame activity too, so that will be fun. Know who actually has borderline untelegraphed reflect? Skeletal knights. Arkovia is always such an interesting experience on physicals.
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i probably would call it un-telegraphed 
, simply because their block buff doesn’t display reflect “thorns” as others/actual reflect telegraphs otherwise do
(likewise Lox being a non pre-warned Arcane 
)
MC enjoyer here; the fact that reflect resist exists on some subpar augments/components doesn’t really change how disproportionately it penalises physical builds. Anyone with some game knowledge can tell why it’s like that but can we ask what’s the point behind that game design?
FoA supposedly tries to make MC more competetive so good idea to bring this decade old imbalance up.
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There are really 2 obvious solutions to this problem. One mentioned above, one I haven’t seen.
- Distribute reflect resistance across physical focused gear.
- Make reflect innately less effective against physical. I actually think this is the better solution. I don’t know what the right number would be? 33% effectiveness against physical? This saves a LOT of effort for the developers looking through gear to distribute reflect resist.
Maybe the solution would be a little of column A, a lot of column B.
I don’t think it’s too late in the game to implement this sort of change, since it’ll be net positive for the players, it doesn’t change how phys builds gear for their characters, and it gives physical damage a “perk” that makes it stand out from the other damage types.
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GD Stash > SR runs > GD Stash > SR runs ad infinitum until boredom sets in is my thought as well…
In Campaign it can be a pain or a way to die depending on the damage type and skill used. Getting megacrits on DB builds can really make you jump when you hit a reflect mob…
Great suggestions adoomgod - I think reducing the effectiveness would be key for Physical builds. Every other damage type is fine I feel with the provided Reflect Resist on Devotions.
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someone finally posted it. I was wondering how people would feel the moment ascendent mode hit and they didn’t build into reflect reduc…then to see the complaints fly.
Every build I play that has dots has at least 40-60% and an over cap on the dmg type I do - minimum.
But:
Very true in the way things are currently.
Well here is the thing. If reflect stays as is then it would force builds that don’t have mastery to help support reflect reduc (like oathkeeper) into the same devotions and components. Agree, not ideal.
If reflect is to be a thing then it should likely be a thing everywhere with solutions that are appropriate. More so with phys builds.
Reflect shouldn’t go away IMO. It should be a part of the normal building process.
Every HC character I’ve lost since the sunder patch has been to reflect…none of which were physical. I can only imagine how bad physical is in that respect - and others IMO.
Bottom line is that physical reflect didn’t evolve along side the other changes that occurred regarding reflect and armor…and reflect - for whatever reason - does not matter in SR.
@adoomgod has good suggestions for quick solutions.
Edit: important side note. I know you can wait for the reflect to die off but it can be hard to see in a field of rainbow pixels - which is basically how I died to it every time, especially with the mobs spawning from totems.
I genuinely think just outright reducing reflect effectiveness on physical damage, and adding some more reflect resistance on devotions/gear that clearly support phys and DoT’s would do the trick. I’m not even sure how much DoT builds suffer since I haven’t tested them post 1.2 yet, but phys, I noticed the pain immediately while playing phys.
Devotions are a cleaner place to add reflect resist, probably. NONE of the physical devotions have reflect resist at the moment.
It’s been pointed out to me on Discord that people aren’t testing physical damage builds with the 33% reflect resistance component, titan plating. I don’t think it should be mandatory for all phys builds to run 2 to survive reflect, but if 1 was the “recommended” amount and did the trick for most cases, I’d call that balanced enough.
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I think i am ok with reflect as long as the power of builds are fine compared to other damage type
That’s considering if you go with owl and a titan plating component for exemple.
Someone else mentionned doombolt above, while I didn’t play that skill much I did receice good reflect vs a pierce infiltrator shadow strike build and a dervish shadow strike with high poison damage. But one titan plating is usually enough for these builds.
I like the fact that reflect can be dangerous and you need to theorycraft with it in mind for some builds.
That being said, the biggest problem I could see against reflect is build diversity as it is easier to fix with the Oathkeeper. To fix it, maybe adding reflect resist (20% to 25%) to tier 3 devotions.
Why is this? This seems weird to me. Reflect enemies are just as hard to spot in MC than in SR. I always have to keep my eyes peeled when there might be some reflective skeletons around. And even then I don’t always spot when their reflect is active in a big group of enemies.
Doesn’t Fabius also have reflect, or did that get removed?
fabius’ blade barrier does, but it’s very small because BB is already small and there is SR scaler reducing it further
(still not impossible to suicide even on magick build if you space out and keep attacking )
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