It’s simply not necessary, this isn’t PVP based game. It’s okay if some already existing items remain little more powerful or off-balance, really.
The recent changes to Mythical Guardian of Death’s Gates for example have ruined my Necro build, which used to be the most powerful character I’ve ever made, by far. Obviously it’s still playable, but it’s really annoying when you plan the build in detail, choose every item specifically, calculate the skill points carefully so everything comes together (especially if you do it by yourself without a build guide, like I do), put in the work, enjoy the end result and later have it broken because of some stat changes that somebody has decided to do.
If it has to be this way, at least make it so that the changes work from now on, not retroactively; i.e. items players already posses remain unchanged, and newly dropped will be the new, changed version.
There is no doubt that there are other players in the community like yourself that would prefer we leave things alone, but for most players still actively engaging with Grim Dawn, the prospect of improvements to the overall balance is part of their enjoyment, and a significant part of Grim Dawn’s 8 successful years of ongoing support.
In the last major update, pets received a massive rework of how they scaled, and in turn their itemization. This was huge for making pets a more versatile playstyle with much more interesting gearing that did not simply funnel you into sets and stacking as many pets as possible. As a result of this, during a very extensive public playtest, it was discovered that the Guardian of Death’s Gates provided far too much power for Necromancers that made it not only exceed our tuning targets, but also stifled creativity in that slot. So rather than nerfing Skeletons and buffing all their other items, we opted to target the overperforming piece.
I’d be curious to see what build was nerfed as a result of this that was not well-compensated by the rest of the patch.
That is not how balancing works. This creates legacy items that are not only problematic for tuning, but also creates a power gap between players that happened to be playing earlier and those that are only just starting or were not so lucky to get the OP item before. Not to mention, most of the item changes we make are buffs, so this would require re-farming gear we made better, which isn’t exactly a fun experience.
Well, even if it did receive some buffs in return, that still requires me to make changes to make it work again, or maybe even build it from scratch. That means that a lot of time I’ve put into it ends up wasted, and that what I’ve actually created, made work and enjoyed can no longer exist. It simply shouldn’t be that way.
Just to be clear - I hugely respect your game, your work, and the way you take feedback from players - that’s what made me stay with Grim Dawn for years. But this is something that could easily be adressed for players like myself (and, like You yourself admitted - are more of) if You really wanted to. Again, this is not a PVP game in nature, so the argument about player power gap seems completely out of place. Everybody can enjoy the game in their own way and pace.
That’s just a part of playing a game that’s still being updated, which is usually considered a good thing.
I do understand your frustration, but try to think of it this way: this only gives you incentive to play the game more, and I suppose that is something that gives you enjoyment. For nstance, I have around 1000 hours in the game. My computer, which I played it on for that long, is horribly slowed down and practically unusable anymore (it’s 11 years old now). I’m saving up for a new gaming laptop right now and I seriously think that when I buy it, I will simply delete all my saves and GD Stash files and start all over with Grim Dawn. A huge part of pleasure in this game is the journey, not the destination.
That’s the thing, I’m not clear on why you had to change anything, which is why I asked for the build.
I mean, the game can’t have it both ways. I already stated my thoughts on creating legacy gear, which is untenable.
If you want to have a static experience, we created a v1.1.9.8 snapshot that will remain forever.
It doesn’t matter that it’s not a pvp game. It is a pve game where builds matter, and the overall balance matters to the player base. If Grim Dawn was a story-heavy RPG like say Baldur’s Gate 3, it wouldn’t matter all that much that busted combinations were uncovered. Hell, that’s part of the fun. But nobody’s competing for clear times and farming speed in BG3.
I guess D4’s spiritborn also needs no nerf.
Tbf even Baldur’s Gate 3 gets balance changes that sometimes include… gasps nerfs.
just like Fangs of Asterkarn Berserker will need no nerf
I understand your pain and frustration.
But I agree with most comments in this thread that changes made to items and skills are a big parts that contribute to the longevity of the game.
To make it short, removing +2 to all Necromancer skills on the mentioned item cut me short on a few important skill benchmarks, such as Undead Legion being 20/12, where it unlocks maximum summon limit. I can’t just those points from somewhere else, since it’s already above the soft cap. Now I could change the weapon slot item to gain it back, but then I would give up the increase the summon limit (+3) from the item, so it makes no sense. I could change some other item, but pretty much all of my items carry some Resistances for pets, which I was actually able to max out, all the basic ones. So changing an item would couse issues with keeping those at 80%. So here it all goes from there.
And speaking of resistances, replacing Physical Resist for Pets with health for Pets I also see as a direct nerf, since the health bonuses are very common, but Physical Resist is much harder to come by.
You’ll get the last skeleton at 20/22 Undead Legion: +1 for every third level till softcap (12) and +1 for every fourth level after softcap.
The main problem is not the legion, but the main skill: you 100% need either gloves or a helmet, otherwise even with +3 on the MI medal you will only get 24/26 (or you will have to take a neck and a relic for +1 to Necro for 26/26) to the main skill.
As one of those who took part in the PT, and who created several builds based on this weapon (in the middle of the test, even before the final buffs-nerfs - any Ravager in less than 30 and even less than 20 seconds) I perfectly understand the reason of this nerf. With +2 Necro and playing Ritualist, you’ll get about 30 free skill points and can take Skeletons, Primal Bond, Primal Spirit (or Reap Spirit with +3 ) and Briarthorn with taunt and aura + Mogdrogen Pact/Blood Pact at the same time. All this together, especially after some buffs, was a huge-game-breaking-damage-boost.
this was part of a broader phys res and phys dmg change that also affected players remember
enemies phys dmg scaling got changed, as result player phys res got changed too - it’s only natural the same would go for pets, (specially since it turned out during playtest you could still obtain high and up to 80% without actually cheesing too much)
Using Guardian of Death’s Gates my Death Knight and Witchblade are only parallel to 14 other pet builds after testing. Are you sure Guardian of Death’s Gates isn’t op just for Cabalist or Ritualist?
With added pet nerfs you might as well remove pets as an option for the already bad: Opressor, Reaper, Defiler, and Warder to save players from wasting time on these as pet builds as I did.
You removed physical resist via Seal of Might making imo pet builds glass cannons and now removing the cannon?
My best pet builds are surprisingly balance and at the minimum needed to run SR90’s without tedium. Almost all characters are balanced in a party if there is at least one pet character to tank, again imo.
I realize balancing a game like this is near impossible. I wish you luck.
I couldn’t disagree with you more. For me it works in the exact opposite way.
The game is interesting enough to make me want to keep coming up with new ideas for builds and therefore keep replaying the game.
If I put my time and planning into a build, fine-tune it, make it work, and then it gets broken because of some rework, it only discourages me from playing. What’s the point in coming up and making new, effective builds, if at any time at somebody’s discretion it may no longer work?
such is the nature of any game that keeps getting some updates, even despite not being live service
With GD you have 3 options
Accept the devs feel the game should be balanced despite being SP centric, and that they will keep updating the game, adjusting when it happens
(generally they rarely actually break stuff, and having tried GS’s Death’s Gates i’m not sure why yours would have broken?/beyond some readjustments - which could in general just be perceived as regular build discovery/optimization; your build might have worked but was it truly “the best” version? )
Stick to the official static version, 9.8
it will never change, your will play the game forever as you knew it - which comes at the drawback of being unable to experience new features and content ofc.
Or: Mod the game yourself, “fix” the items and skill stats suspended in time at a moment of your choosing. This might break “balancing” as devs see it, but it wont prevent you from experiencing new features content expansions etc - tho there might be some cross “contamination”/restriction on old/existing items being updated for new Berserker class ofc that wasnt’ only introduced in FoA
Agreed. If a build 0.001% better than another who the heck cares. Online is mostly edited builds anyway.
I totally get this. It was how I viewed things before. Now, when something changes and wrecks a build I have my goal is to “wreck” the game back…find another way to get the job done in a way I envisioned it.
I understand that everyone’s ability to dedicate time to a game is different but try that mentality on just one character. You still might find fun there.
I think this thread started the wrong way.
You should have focus on that, what you said in the quote.
That combined with a grimtool link of your build.
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