things like rutnicks, jaxxons ring etc. also stuff like silvercore bolts would be cool too.
i would prefer pasthru on one weapon at least not some chance,wanted try ranger build because of pass but not now with wps shoving down my throat
Oof, Rutnicks. They´d have spread AND passthrough then.
Something like 25%-33% pass through on rutnick would be reasonable similar to storm spread passthrough mod.
you want wps on a gunner
so to not force builds into 1 weapon, since passthrough is inherently superior, spreading it out to wps makes sense, that way more builds gets passthrough, and fewer things gets busted OP
My only issue with the whole passthrough revolution is that class combinations without native WPS got pretty shafted. I had a decently functional 2H Fire Strike Pyromancer with Desolator that went from just about ok at SR75-80 to pretty damn crap. Unless I want to completely overhaul the build (shift damage type or move away from 2H which was the core motive for the build in the first place), there’s very little I can do with a ranged Pyromancer now. I went from 100 % passthrough to 26.6 % passthrough (had to swap medal to even get that much, and lost a crapton of bonuses in the process) and all I gained for it is like 10 % flat damage on the weapon. I have an unfinished meme crit (Upheaval) Elementalist that’s probably gonna be essentially unplayable. And there’s very little that can be done for either of these combinations to get back to a reasonable performance as ranged. Maybe if M. Korvaak’s Brand applied to all ranged instead of just dual-wield, but it still wouldn’t make up for all the possibilities these two classes (and who knows how many others) lost.
Sure the spectrum of viable ranged weapons has increased dramatically. But the range of viable ranged classes has shrunk in their stead.
relic medal shoulder
pyros i’ve seen use this, and is seemingly perfectly happy about it for 2h
all classes now have viable ranged passthrough avail tho
Not all of them have it available as easily as others and as to how viable it is, that’s debatable. Some have it built straight into skills they’ve already been using before, others have to swap medals for infinitely more inferior ones and sacrifice a +1 skill relic with additional mastery skill bonuses just to get back a small percentage of the passthrough they had before. Even if they were able to get back 50 % of the passthrough they used to have (pretty sure you can’t even get that much, given that many of these item procs give 70 % passthrough instead of 100 %, and you won’t even get to 100 % WPS chance either) and even if they were able to do so without losing anything important on the items they had to swap out (no chance), they’d still be at half their previous passthrough and all they got as compensation was 10 % base weapon damage. Given that you will lose important bonuses on those items and that you will not even get 50 % passthrough, they’re actually even more worse off.
i see nothing wrong with that
what you are describing is the exact intend, build tradeoffs
1, to not force every ranged build into the same 1-5 vastly natively superior weapons, you now all have passthrough, but less off it, which fixes the busted OP state of native passthrough
2, you then get to build tradeoff more single target dmg vs more aoe or more more of X for more passthrough; this is how it should be
3, less passthrough on 1 build is not that bad when more builds get passthrough, but moreso because it’s no longer the default native OP state you get to use different guns/make more different viable builds, where you can then decide yourself on the build tradeoffs you feel is worthwhile for the content you play
Upheaval is the only ranged build that’s dead, probably deservedly so given how it works and the reluctance to change how it worked
when more builds become viable from this change, some builds ending up with less passthrough than before, but still remaining viable, doesn’t really make it a bad thing
not reaching 100% wps is also not bad, because you still didn’t reach 100% wps before
now however builds might have reason to use those items that grant wps, because of the passthrough, that otherwise might not have been taken before, now resulting in net more wps than previously, which then also compensates a bit on the dmg front, - judging by the builds now using pyroclams, plunder, and shadowflame shoulders
Well it’s the remaining viable part that I question. Granted, my experience in that regard is currently limited to just that one Pyro build but that build went from completing SR75-80 within timer 3/5 times to 1/5 times (and just barely too) after I made gear changes to bring the clear capability up. The single target did not feel noticably better, partly because of loss of other bonuses due to medal swap, and the clear felt 73.4 % worse. At least from where I’m standing given this limited experience, they could have been a bit more generous either on the damage (though that might blow out the builds that are able to make use of e.g. the Bursting Round bonus) or on the passthrough % (100 instead of 70) and availability.
LMFAO, nice typo. Unless…?
More on topic: Silver Spread could actually use some passthrough. It’s a very niche 3 sec CD skill from a niche component.
Rutnick and Jaxxon though, nah. They’re pretty solid already far as AoE is concerned.
in fact i dont want it,not for what i wanted to make but they turned it into shit now good job crate
then maybe what you’re not making the right build adjustments to compensate for using a busted mechanic before?
if your build relied on 1 specific item granting a specific busted mechanic, and it doesn’t function “at all” without that same bustedness, then maybe it wasn’t a good/decent build to begin with? (that’s what i’ve been told before when making the same argument)
What’s then needed is to look at your 2h range pyro as a whole “from scratch” to see where the oversights might be, to make sure it wasn’t mechanically so “weak”/overly memey that it didn’t “deserve” to exist in the first place on the basis of “just desolator”
would also sorta fit thematically with the whole pierce thingy, - and since it’s not a wps and just a 3sec cd granted skill it’s probably not gonna blow out of the water
then why are you making ranged builds?
if you are making gunners, and not taking wps, then you are fundamentally building “wrong”/going against intended build mechanics, which is then on you and your own fault for not using the tools available but more so how they were designed to work and choosing to gimp yourself
you can’t blame devs for you choosing to bork your own builds by ignoring the things they gave you - devs aren’t gonna balance the game around giving you fundamental included build options but choosing to leave them out
because that would obviously then make the builds that do use them much much stronger; hence passthrough patch changes, because no reasonable person makes a gunner and don’t use wps
so i need play ranged build like someone intended now,it seems im wrong about thinking game should be funny not balance and other things,planed on using skill that cant trigers wps is what i planed but now cant how i wanted,well i give it chance.still at least one gun with 100% pass would be nice,and i blame them for that change and will be like that
if you planned on using a skill that can’t trigger wps, then you wouldn’t benefit from passthrough anyway/patch didn’t affect you anyway
there are 3 skills in the entire game that benefits from passthrough on guns, which all 3 retain passthrough in some form still
AA = wps too; so game needs to be balanced considering this, obviously
Primal Strike; still has passthrough, still uses VoS for that passthrough
Amarasta’s Blade Burst; now has passthrough on Ugdenbog Bilelauncher, and is actually viable to build around now
so all the 3 skills that had passthrough before has it still
no other skill had or benefited from passthrough on guns before
Plunderers relic and shadowflame shoulders went from hardly ever used to being a damage gain on those builds compared to whatever was used before, especially with 2 hander guns getting more mileage out of volley wps than single shot. It’s not even a negative tradeoff
I do wish korvaak worked with 2 handers and gun+shield, but I’m also mixed because it’s already idiotic to not use on firestrike builds unless you absolutely need conversion on the medal, which doesn’t seem great for diversity. Otherwise pyroclams have the better wps along with a super cool looking shell and chance at pearl inside.
Gun and shield actually gets hosed even more, not working on the dual wield or 2 hander wps options.
Rutnick wps are really underpowered, but adding too much passthrough is going to make for some hilarious fire strike results on them. Jaxxon same deal, low % passthrough could work but 100% would probably cause issues with firestrike interaction. Would be fine for RF or Savagery though
I don’t know how you could end up with passthrough that low on a pyromancer with desolator and a passthrough mark.
Plunderer’s talisman plus regular pyroclasm gives you 25.9% passthrough chance, and with mythical pyroclasm, you get 30.1%, and that’s not counting your wps skills or desolator.
Desolator and 6 points in Bursting Round gives you 20% by itself, and 6 points in Chilling Rounds gives you another 20%.
All together that should give you upwards of 65% chance for multiple overlapping explosions, not counting Storm Spread, which would bump it up around 85%.
85% is a nerf compared to 100%, but it’s not that bad.
In general, there are lots more viable ranged mastery combinations. The only non-viable combination for 2H ranged is Warlock. For 1H, the only non-viable combinations are Warlock, Conjurer, and Druid.
Pyromancer is Demo + Occultist, not Demo + Inqui.
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