Good post. I am more aware of this as I typically use a controller - and with a controller you simply can not use the exploit. Unlike the m&kb, you need to pivot the view to move the character.
I suppose I can just use a mouse and KB, but what will happen when this gets to console?..it seems like it might be wise to fix this issue ahead of time.
Don’t we already lose time-chest because we lose time for dying 6 times? It could be insta -2 min penalty for dying. As for more penalty besides that i say ‘no’. Because…
RNG in SR can be awful. First fix that and make SR more balanced then we talk about more penalties 
With all due respect, the fact of getting some loot doesn’t matter without mentioning how much time it took to get it. Bruteforcing your way to get loot is neither easy nor hard, just long and tedious. But I wholeheartly agree that the game shouldn’t reward this kind of approach too much, because that’s a sure way to make people lose interest in the game.
Not sure why do you wave GDStash argument though. Some people play legit, some just engage in buildmaking “competition”. If one doesn’t aspire to join that competition there’s literally no difference whether someone else plays legit or not.
Absolutely. I started from scratch when FG was released. Removed all stashes/ characters / blueprints … everything. And it took me three lvl 100 characters and many hours of farming to do SR 66 (no cheat, no gdstash-ing, no abuse). Sure i was not pushing SR but rather wanted to do it more easy farming way but I’m good at arpg and now I know many ‘hidden’ mechanics of GD, read manuals, this forum other sources. Something not every player would ever do. Maybe 3-5% of them. 90% of players are casuals with little knowledge they want just to put things together intuitively and at least do SR30-40. Believe me that is not that easy with such approach.
True. I personally hate dying. It is psychological penalty for me
If aggro abuse went, most builds would have to drastically lower their expectations, and, yeah, only a few would remain at the highest level. But you could lower the discrepancy of loot between different levels so that the few deep SR viable builds didn’t have such an advantage. I opened a thread about it long ago, and observed an interesting psychological effect - people would never agree to play at a lower level even if loot and everything was the same. It was the number, the pride. So dropping aggro abuse would not be a good idea because it would also affect diversity - people would overplay the very few best achieving SR builds even if SR 75 and 65 or lower had very little difference in loot.
But as SR established itself as a single target focused mode, and I’d rather see bumrushes gone than aggro abuse. Camera fixed it to a great extent but there’s this problem of low difficulty.
It matters in the sense that the SR crowd aren’t the ones here making the case for it to be more punishing.
This doesn’t mean I don’t agree with a vast majority of what’s been said. I do. I am trying to look at this from a holistic, all encompassing angle.
My gdstash comments are in direct response to the posts above such as gdstash = thug life and such. In no way I said that gdstashing is wrong but it needs to be removed from context when you ask for changes as not everyone uses it and not everyone plays for “build competition” only.
I said repeatedly that I respect the 5 min builders. I can’t do it.
I guess I can’t understand why someone would want to change a mode based upon a small community, on that communitie’s values, which are in no way officially sanctioned by Crate in a single player modable game.
I don’t want anything changed for those who are having fun. The CR builders are having fun. Why Change it? I don’t want to wreck their fun.
That is of course taking into account the good well throughout suggestions such as the removal of loot being too good in normal and elite and the increase in timer penalty after certain shards.
Again I would be totally good with insta kicks after death in SR if the boss floors were not haha easy or lol die.
@ya1: I didn’t mean to accuse Crate of “commercialism”. And coming from a fincancial/PE background, that wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing in my opinion. I see nothing wrong from getting wealthy via making one of the best games of all time. My suspicion comes from a phrase I hear a lot: “Incentives drive behavior”.
@Zantai: Thank you for the updates. I especially like the shift (nerf) of rewards in Normal difficulty, because the limited data set I have (my friends) - farming SR 65-66 Normal is basically all they do to farm gear.
I believe you when you say SR balance is not financially driven. Glad to hear it.
I do hope camera abuse is fixed (I say fixed because I consider it a bug - maybe it’s not, but either way, I don’t think it was originally intended or balanced around).
@Rhylthar: Everyone I know (admittedly, a very small circle of friends) cares a lot about loot while playing SR. In fact, it’s the main reason they play SR - it’s the fastest route, to the best loot, available to them.
Slanter’s SR wish list:
I expect that last change is too much effort. But I think I’d like it.
Good thread.
yeah i agree with some points but time reset on death is too rough. And i do like the idea of fighting nemesis combinations in stead of just 1
I would be in favor of this. Aggro abuse has personally bothered me since the release of FG. But then again, if aggro abuse was changed, the multiplayer issues with boss rooms I described various times would probably be even worse.
And why do all chars have to be able to clear SR 75? SR 65-66 gives good enough loot and you already get the full SR set at 60.
Good point, I also think that toning down the amount of bosses to 3 or maybe even 2 would be a good move along with aggro abuse fix.
Even SR60 would be nigh impossible for most builds if 4 bosses rush at the same time. It’s just too many debuffs to handle.
And how do you want to get a proof for that?
Not everybody makes videos. 
I won’t get forced to make any video to get a place in Build Compendium. 
I have a 16.000 internet connection, uploading a video of 11 min took hours last time.
Let’s say, a fictional example to picture my point, Grim Dawn balancing would build around Double-Rare with perfect Rolls, and except that you wouldn’t be able to beat Ultimate or atleast majority of the Endgame-Stuff. For a GDStasher there wouldn’t be issue obviously… due they simple can add this Item via GDStash to your Characters. But the average legit Player might never see the end for many hundrets up to thousands of hours.
The Point is(and sorry for entering this debate) that nobody wants trash Stasher, nor discredit them, but it’s pretty easy to talk if you can get everything within a few minutes, have the best gear and than steamroll everything. However for legit players to get this point, it would require alots of play hours, and that’s why i share the opinion of shadowpast. In Context of Feedback / Suggestions the Feedback of Stasher should be only considered if it overlaps in a reasonable way with legit players, like say overall Item,- and Gamebalancing. But if it comes down to the difficulty, penality and stuff, where it’s easy for a GD Stasher to have within 5 minutes the perfect stuff and build, versus the legit player which might need to spent a huge amount of time to achieve that, the legit player should be the focus here.
I would agree with that but it’s hard for some people to upload the videos due to their internet connection. So it’s up to a builder whether to be honest about his build or not. And you can always ask any builder about his build in his guide and ask him if stuff is not working as advertised.
There are quite a few builds posted with SR 75-76 tag that are not really reliable 75-76 farmers but can do it maybe once in a while.
Most of the builders who GDstash actually do it to make builds that can be used as blueprints by legitimate players. I still have legitimate save folder but I rarely play it, it became too boring after me after like ~10 level 100 chars (also upgrading each character after each “balancing” patch is a real chore and having your best items rerolled really destroys motivation to play further). I do gdstash to find and share best possible builds for bragging rights and for legitimate players to follow them and have fun. So yeah, I don’t use GDstash to steamroll everything, I use it (and most builders use it) to create a build that steamrolls everything.
How nice of you screwing up my saboteur again. /s
You get … how many legendaries per run? 4-5 at normal SR 50-51? Which is around the hardest part (46-60) without aggro use because it is a tinier arena than the rest?
This is what normal SR 65 looks like (this was my push from 60-65). A two-shard run takes around 1.5-2 SoT runs and refunds me the “skeleton key” if I do two consecutive shards at least. and funny, 60-61 is alreadythe same difficulty as doing two ultimate roguelikes. (with aggro use!!!) Just different and more fun. And more QoL. And more flow, if you know that term.
But hey, screw us cause some elitist stashers got their panties in a twist.
edit:
Now that I’m not korvaakmad anymore, here’s a suggestion: since normal 60-61 is roughly roguelike difficulty and time investment with way tougher boss rooms, why not nerf the loot at 65 and above, while leaving 60-61 alone?
I second this. Not sure how others do, but i try to replicate the legit experience every time i make a build.
If the items are very rare or very hard to craft i create only one copy of each and go with it regardless of the rolls. If the item is regular purple/blue i spawn 4-6 copies of it and choose from those even if the rolls are bad. I never use double rare or a single rare MI which perfectly matches my needs. It still requires some time for a legit player to build the same thing i GDstashed but it’s very affordable.
Otherwise there is no point in sharing the build
I hope people understand that. You don’t wright a wall of text just to have your 5 mins of fame in a very small community. Well… at least i don’t see a point in that.
Wow. That is a lot. I don’t think there’s any arguing for it…
That’s subjective. -50% player res and around +600% enemy health among many other stats make just bout anything on Ultimate harder that anything on Nornal.
As someone with a fairly new 100 character and trying to gear it without GDstash (I don’t use mods at all), this game is plenty difficult. I scratch my head wondering how anyone can do SR75+ when I struggle just to get past 15. lol Do I understand all the mechanics in this game? Nope. Am I the best player? Nope. But reading these forums, I just don’t understand how some of you all do the things you post about. Maybe it’s because I’ve just not played it as much or understand it as well, but I just don’t get it.
You are looking at the timeframe of 2 key dungeon runs with a pierce budget blademaster. The legendary count just about breaks even when we use numbers from people who advocate that the MC droprate is already fine.
Depends.