Hello folks!
This topic it’s like the cry of my soul because I am feeling qualms of conscience for the way how I learned several things about this game’s mechanics (about the Ulzuin’s Wrath mechanics and about Vindicative flames). First of all let me tell you that I am always trying to be a hardcore player and learn everything myself and refer to official manual of the game (any game but in that case GD). I am feeling sometimes that when I learned something not myself (via the community for example) it feels not right. It is like you feeling yourself dumb and humiliated. It’s like you feeling yourself such a wuss that you wrote an entire topic on forum to just understand something. But you could learn it yourself or via the very careful reading of the game’s manual. But you was so lazy that you made an entire topic to make people do the research for you or tell you something right away. That’s ridiculous and that was just my debate with myself.
Well…what I did several days ago. I made two topics about Righteous Fervor and about Vindicative Flames. Folks explained to me the passages of the official game’s guide about the order of conversion and that first of all skill modifiers work and only then Transmuter activates. Then they explained to me that the damage from Vindicative Flames come only during retaliation. It is a mystery to me why I didn’t made my own research.
And I want to ask you several things folks:
Did you had similar feelings in you life when you played in GD?
Can such behavior be somehow justified? Is Ok to ask at forums the things which you don’t undertand? Don’t you just kill the joy of pioneer in yourself then?
Does guys from Crate planning to do an other game in Action-RPG genre? Maybe in this game I can play properly…
P.S. thank you guys for this great game. I had tons of very fun hours in it. I spoiled the experience for myself by asking community about things which I should learn myself. I killed the sensation of the pioneer. Probably it means that I am not worthy to play it. I have no regrets about paying every penny for this game and it’s DLC but I will wipe it out from my Steam library completely. That was a great dream in my life then…
imo it’s always ok to ask in forums, in fact i’d consider it an important step in learning about X game mechanic, since rarely is 110% explained in any official guide, tutorial or tooltips
and it’s also possible you pick up knowledge that you’d never find out in game your self
4 years later since i started playing i still find out and learn tiny new things/mechanics in the game
GD has this sorta “pseudo” complexity to it, where it has a lot of mechancis, and hidden mechanics, or effects, that isn’t explained in the basic game guide, nor ingame in tooltips - and frankly i think most of the stuff is too long to be explained ingame
that sorta means the “only” way for you to learn these mechanics is from other players that has compiled this knowledge already (or just be one heckuva observant and dedicated player/“tester”)
i also don’t think there is anything wrong with this, devs not writing 300page detailed guides, part of the charm is exactly learning those tiny things years later, or just finding buried “information gold nuggets” in the community discussions
^imo you could say the game takes part of it’s “exploration” outside of the game and into community talks/posts
Yes. You don’t learn everything immediately, it comes with time. If you want to progress into the higher difficulties without too many issues or difficulties, you really have to try things for yourself, see how others do things and see what works and how it works. For me, i have been playing for 3.7k hours and still do not know everything.
This is difficult to answer. There will always be people who want everything explained to them so there is no doubt in the decisions they make if they afraid they will permanently stop their character from achieving it’s full potential, there will be people on the other side of the spectrum who like experimenting and learning themselves even if it means making mistakes and learning from said mistakes, and there will be people in the middle who like trying things themselves and using guides as rough templates or inspiration. When someone who has played long enough feel like they have a good grasp on the game, they might look to challenges to test themselves and more experienced players to learn how they can improve further etc.
It is extremely difficult to try to satisfy every group with the one option typically being you just make the information on the game’s mechanics available in an optional location like Crate’s website, which they make note of in an in-game loading screen tip I believe. That you can learn more by checking out the game guide for a brief overview, enough to get someone to start playing confidently with a basic understanding of the game’s fundamentals.
While it doesn’t include the absolutely advanced, precise mechanics, you don’t need to know these at a minimum to complete the game on it’s lowest difficulty nor does everyone playing want to know - there will always be casual players just looking to have fun and hardcore players who will work these details out for themselves with repeat playthroughs of the game in every community.
heck just yesterday i learned the resistance hardcap is 100% - where i previously thought it was 95-96 or something, since i had read that in another post
these types of conflicting “knowledge” also means it’s good to deep dive in forum/community, so you get verification that X is actually X, since you might be unable to confirm everything yourself ingame
Absolutely not, never felt badly for asking questions. And if I hadn’t asked questions on the old titan quest forum all those years ago I probably wouldn’t be here because I’d have given up on TQ and the ARPG genre.
No, none of Crate’s projects atm are another ARPG; they want a break from the genre for a while so are working on a town builder entitled Farthest Frontier which is due to go into early access on Steam some time this year, a standalone GD related game, a horror survivial game and an RTS game.
I’d also say there is no “proper” way to learn since everyone is different. Some people like doing it themselves, others prefer to ask questions to get a better understanding of something they’ve found but are not sure about. And others just want their hands held and be shown the way to everything. They are all “proper” ways to play the game; just depends on which is the one for you or even a mixture of them.
Keep in mind games are made by mere humans. Maybe they failed to make something clear and you’re just wasting your time when there’s no logical solution to be discovered.
With that said, I prefer learning things in games on my own too. Game is more juicy this way.
Maybe just play the game for fun, don’t quit the game but rather forums which are not for everyone for various reasons. Imo you’re way too dramatic and thinks incorrectly that someone actually cares here that you asked those questions or thinks lowly of you. Just chill man, give yourself a break, sleep it off and it will pass and you won’t have to give up on Grim Dawn, you have so much more to explore. And please have some more self-esteem. I’ve seen from your posts that you’re a smart guy. Imagine feeling down after some forum interaction.
I don’t feel the need to discover mechanics myself. I search forums / Discord / guides. Although I sometimes have to because of lazy players / lazy devs and I’m naturally very skeptic. I just want to know the rules beforehand so can make proper justified decisions and not guesses. As if I was playing chess for example.
It’s OK to ask things, after all that’s why forums exist.
Speaking of which you could read game mechanics, search precious topics or other guides you’re interested in and ask questions not covered by them or ambiguous like the Ulzuin Wrath thread.
Every player need some time to learn stuff and still you can’t know everything of course. I personally want to know how something work rather than why it does. So my knowledge is based on experience and observations and not how things are coded.
Thousands thanks to you guys! Everybody! tqFan, Gnomish_Inquisition, Evil_Baka, Nery and many others. For your patience, for a kind mood and everything. I made IT…
I completely wipe out my whole Steam library of all of the games and not just Grim Dawn. Thus I punished myself for being a lazy pussy who can’t make his own proper research. No games for some time. I did many mistakes in my life (I was so shy that I missed the love of my life in US and other cowardly things) but I need to learn something from it…
And especially you guys from the Crate Entertainment. You know what? You are a HUGE talents! In my opinion you are having a BOON which gave you ALMIGHTY. A boon to create a great games which really help people like me to survive during the hardships of my earthly life. You made a very interesting and complicated game. Today I read feedback on Steam on other ARPG games and almost everybody mention Grim Dawn like some paragon of the genre and many people rate it higher than even Path of Exile and I am not mentioning Diablo 3 (who cares about this miserable pile of secrets?).
I wish you everything the VERY VERY best folks and hopefully someday I’l return back on this forum…
reminds me of classic titan quest days, where lots of people didn’t know resistance reductions is ESSENTIAL in mid to late game. and the old titan quest didn’t offer any explanation about it. also important stuff like critical hit from offensive ability only applies to melee physical/pierce attacks. you have to DIVE into the net forums to understand the VITAL GAME MECHANICS that’ll let you make the most basics builds that can survive mid to late game.
above is just the example i get from titan quest. torchlight 1-2 and good old diablo 2 also suffer the same problem of the game and dev not giving enough VITAL info about their GAME MECHANICS, which cause lots of players who didn’t read online guides to think their characters can’t survive at all against spongy enemies in mid and late game, which also lead to them to believe these games were designed badly…
these days, compared to the similar games i explained above, grim dawn offers much more in game help about the game mechanics. there is also official game guide from the dev that explained more in detail. not to mention how many easy to reach sticky game guides in this official forum. compared to all other similar arpg looter, i think crate is the best and most active in helping players understand their game mechanics.
its okay to feel embarrassed about your 1st few builds that deals tiny damage to enemies in mid game. i’ve gone through that phase too. then i go read the guides in this forum because i realize i can’t proceed on my own in game. after that, i finally could understand and experience the most enjoyable routes to reach late game challenges.
