[PTR 1.1.9.7] [Feedback] v1.1.9.7 PTR Physical Retaliation Feedbacks

[x1x1x1x2]

@anon94264551

Fire tower is better than lightning tower when you are playing conversion-based physical retal builds, because of its powerful armor reduction.

I hate the radius of the fire towers. I tend to play top left on nemesis waves and vanguard still reaches that area while fire towers don’t. It’s worth it when you play middle a lot tho.

@anon94264551

Yep, and that’s definately because of the goddamn phys2vit conversion on that shield.

Yeah that, and also since both amulet and shield are already taken which could’ve been for avenger of cairn + a beefy phys shield.

[Crab_Turtle_2112]

@x1x1x1x2

I think the reliance of converted retal gimps retal DE a lot because you have to choose between good retal numbers and cast speed, which are both needed cause of the nature of DE as a channeling spell. I don’t think it needs more RTA but cast speed instead on the amulet and probably more on the shield. Also I still stand by my suggestion to remove phys to vit on the shield even tho it might leave a bad taste on some people.

Retal Ignaffar has the same problem

[x1x1x1x2]

Retal ignaffar has an even bigger problem, namely its mod is on an offhand.

[banana_peel]

I may look into it later but imo pierce rta Aegis was never a big problem. It’s not really your regular retal build that enjoys some extra tankiness and AFK ability becuase its direct retal is not converted. It’s just a fast spam caster, and that’s all there is to it.

[tqFan]

FYI I see “Update required message”

[anon94264551]

It seems like the update push yesterday is only a half of what’s written in the changelog, where the physical retaliation parts happened to be lost. As far as I find, 4% RtA to CS on Colossal Fortress, Health buff on Mythical Avenger of Cairn, and 5% total speed on Mythical Avatar of Order are missing, according to the latest changelog.
I’m pretty sure I’ve upgraded my PTR to the latest because my Mythical Consumption of Agrivix is now of 6% LS to FOI.

Edit August 23: The 12.57nd update works and my test result is below.

[medea_fleecestealer]

Just had another 12.57 mb update so maybe it’s for what’s missing.

[tqFan]

Yes, at least M. Avatar of Order has TS% now.

[DeputyChuck]

I can attest that the changes to Nightshade’s reach and Turrion’s reprisal are also in effect

[anon94264551]

August 23:
Finally I could do my tests!

The damage changes about physical retaliation this time is mainly focused on DE and Colossal Fortress (and maybe Aegis). Let’s first leave DE and Aegis to @x1x1x1x2 ,who is very concerned and professional, and then see my results on Colossal Fortress.

I’ve had the same Colossal Fortress build as I used on August 6 (GT code: gZw8BonN). The CR clear time now is 5:45-6:00ish. It’s very close to non-set Zolhan shield build, and only a small difference was observed (about 10 second). Considering Colossal Fortress has an average 24% physical resist which makes the build even tankier, the damage difference is acceptable. HOWEVER, if you take the rarity difference between M Zolhan’s Revenge, which is a craftable purple, and a super-roll Overlord’s Colossal Fortress of Vengeance, which is a triple rare, into consideration, the Colossal Fortress build deserves to be a little better for a good reason. Reasonablely these two should have the same damage performance, so I insist the RtA modifier to CS on Colossal Fortress being a touch more than 4%.

Video link: GD PTR v1.1.9.7 physical Retal Feedbacks August 23, 2022

[x1x1x1x2]

@anon94264551

Let’s first leave DE and Aegis to @x1x1x1x2 ,who is very concerned and professional, and then see my results on Colossal Fortress.

I probably won’t be able to get into it soon due to personal reasons. There are other people who made retal DE for the test patch but I dunno if they wanna post here.

[anon94264551]

Well, I guess there won’t be a big difference on retal DE though. lol
Anyway, I’ll have to check how my M Avatar of Order rerolls before I could do a test on DE.

[Retal_Abuser]

Retal Drain Essence Deathknight Crucible 2-3 (test patch

Retal Drain Essence Deathknight SR 75-76 ( test patch)

Damage with armored and shattered mutator disappears, it ceases to exist.

[anon94264551]

4:40 seems pretty good though

[x1x1x1x2]

This is the one from the other day. I heard speeds on avatar of order is now up. You gotta see if it brings the build to sub 4 :kekw:

[anon94264551]

Off topic first:
Got busy for the last few weeks looking for a job offer. Finally I could have some time spent on GD this week and did tens of SR runs, and decided to update this post.

Main Idea:
non-set (plus non-zolhan shield) RF WL could use some love on RtA for SR farming. Probably an 22% RtA modifier to Markovian’s Advantage on Markovian’s Stratagem is good.

Reasons:
I mainly farmed SR these days and I found my non-set Retal RF WL had some serious trouble fighting ranged monsters, but this trouble did not exist on the Stoneguard one. So I did a test on Seeker of the Damned run in the latest PTR. Here is my result：

1. Stoneguard: first round(before it spells its second force shield) 72% with a -15% AS mutator.
2. Non-set+Zolhan Shield: first round 58% with a +8% damage mutator.
3. Non-set+Colossal Fortress: first round 40% with a -6% physical resist mutator.

That is to say, non-set+Colossal Fortress is only a half of Stoneguard in fighting a ranged monster. It’s OK of Stoneguard to be stronger than non-set but IMO it shouldn’t be twice as strong as non-set.

Besides, SR is not like CR, where the map is small and bosses run towards you in most cases. In SR, the boss room is generally bigger than CR room, and you have to walk around to pull the bosses together, and there are lots of SR ranged bosses who never come close to you, such as Zantarin, Thalonis, Slathsarr, Janaxia, Tirgan, Allostria, Larria, The Duskreaper, Sister Crimson, the seven mages, and so on. Some of them never appeared in CR, and in CR you would have towers to help.If you faced 2 of them, or 1 of them plus a slow-walking boss, you would have to fight them one by one even you pulled them all. In these cases, the non-set retal RF WL suffers a lot.

So it’s of good reason to help non-set retal RF WL with some RtA buff, and even with the asked buff, non-set retal RF WL won’t be OP in CR because it’s now over 5:30.

Notes:

1. Some RtA modifier to Markovian’s Advantage will NOT affect CR speed much because Markovian’s Advantage is single-targeting and it doesn’t strike with shield. It will just help to solve some boss-disperse problem or Seeker of the Damned in SR.
2. Some RtA modifier to Markovian’s Advantage will NOT affect non-retal builds.
3. If directly adding a RtA modifier to Markovian’s Advantage is improper, the RtA modifier on Zolhan Shield could be tuned down a little (to 15% if necessary).
4. We don’t have to worry about Stoneguard being OP because in most cases it needs Ikrix Scale to stack resists and OA.

GT links:

1. Stoneguard: Warlord, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.6) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
2. Non-set+Zolhan Shield: www.grimtools.com/calc/b2813n7V
3. Non-set+Colossal Fortress: www.grimtools.com/calc/1NXby79V

Videos:

3 Retal RF WLs fighting Seeker of the Damned in SR 75

[anon94264551]

Never thought that Non-set retal RF WL could be buffed SOOOOOO much. I thought a bit of RtA to Markovian was enough. The latest patch is exactly surprising me.

I’ll leave my test to this weekend, probably on sunday, when I can have hours on GD, and see how it helps with fighting the ranged enemies in SR. Then I can have a conclusion whether it’s over buffed or just perfect.

Anyway, let me thank developers for taking my ideas into consideration.

One thing that I come up with now is Stoneguard mace (only mace) + Avenger of Cairn + Orkaloth visage + Final stop shield. That would probably make a broken beast.

Edit Nov 22:
Just tried with this one: Warlord, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.6) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Ravager of the mind, facetank 68s with 2 OA potion. Gotta have more test on SR.

Edit Nov 26:
I’ve done the newest tests on Seeker of the Damned. The latest upgrade feels good. It really helps non-set phys retal RF WL to fight the ranged in SR. Here is my results:

1. Stoneguard: first round (before it spells its second force shield) 77%
2. Non-set+Zolhan Shield: first round 70%
3. Non-set+Colossal Fortress: first round 60%

All runs are kept with neutral mutator sets. We can see that stoneguard is still faster than non-set, but the gap is now reasonable. Nice job developers!

However, with these buffs comes a risk. With the +3 to SS on M Avenger of Cairn, we no longer need full stoneguard set to get a lv 19 or 20 SS, which may probabaly result in stoneguard mace being abused. Thus I did some extra tests on this. I also fought Seeker of the Damned with two builds that use only stoneguard mace but not the other two pieces. Here is my results:

1. Stoneguard mace + Final Stop shield: first round 76%
2. Stoneguard mace + Zolhan shield: first round 80%

This shows the consequence of stoneguard mace being abused. I got better RtA than full stoneguard without giving up tankiness of Avenger of Cairn. I believe this is not what develpers want. Honestly I would suggest these below:

1. Divide the 32% RtA on stoneguard mace. Make it 16% on the mace and 16-18% on the 3 piece. This is meant to force people to wear full stoneguard set.
2. If altogether it’s still 32% RtA to SS on full stoneguard set. I would suggest another +1 to SS on stoneguard mace so that craft bouns of Honor relic will not be restricted to SS, making the build overall cheaper without putting on too much power.

GT links:

1. Stoneguard: www.grimtools.com/calc/xZyrdbKN
2. Non-set+Zolhan Shield: www.grimtools.com/calc/b2813n7V
3. Non-set+Colossal Fortress: www.grimtools.com/calc/1NXby79V
4. Stoneguard Mace + Final Stop: www.grimtools.com/calc/M2g6DMgN
5. Stoneguard Mace + Zolhan Shield: www.grimtools.com/calc/4VxaWDlZ

Videos:

PTR(Nov. 21) 5 Retal RF WLs fighting Seeker of the Damned in SR 75_单机游戏热门视频

@Zantai

[anon94264551]

Pretty confused with the lastest Stoneguard change. Yes stoneguard mace is abused in non-set builds, but stoneguard as a whole set is not op. Why should it get a net -6% RtA to SS?

[Fzxz]

As a Stoneguard player, I must say something about the latest nerf on Stoneguard:

1. Why should Stoneguard get a net -6% RtA to SS? At the cost of a lot of skill points, max resistance and offensive ability, Stoneguard’s RtA is now almost WORSE than non-set builds after the latest change. There’s no reason to use Stoneguard instead of non-set build right now. The Stoneguard is totally a joke.
2. As a Oathkeeper’s set with keywords ‘Retaliation’, ‘RtA to RF’ & ‘RtA to SS’, Stoneguard consumes necklace, weapon & belt, while giving ONLY +1 Oathkeeper skill? It’s so funny that Stoneguard builds cannot reach the max level of Counter Strike,SS & even Retribution.

I would suggest these below:

1. Divide the 32% RtA on stoneguard mace. Make it 16% on the mace and 16-18% on the 3 piece. This is meant to force people to wear full stoneguard set, instead of nerf Stoneguard unreasonably!
2. Give Stoneguard Ward +1 Oathkeeper skill to make it possible to reach SS20 & Retribution22, and make it easier to assign skill points.

[BOG]

@anon94264551

HOWEVER, if you take the rarity difference between M Zolhan’s Revenge, which is a craftable purple, and a super-roll Overlord’s Colossal Fortress of Vengeance, which is a triple rare, into consideration, the Colossal Fortress build deserves to be a little better for a good reason.

It isnt THAT hard to get a good rolls on Colossal Fortress. You can just refresh Hyram’s inventory over and over again, and eventualy you’ll buy a nice one. Sure, getting double-rare with exactly the mods you want is a wishful thinking, but i doint think it makes such a major difference. Sometimes i feel getting a certain legendary with low drop rate (such as Skybreach Bulwark or Heart of Yugol) is even harder. At least, time-wise.
Compared to retal DE, that forces you to literaly live in Steps of Torment for weeks to get even a half-decent shield, all of that is nothing, though.