Hoping to get some clarity around these two devotions. I’ve asked around, and differing GD’ers that I consider “in the know” have given me some conflicting information… so figured this would be the perfect place to get some clarity on this topic.
I built out a pretty nifty elemental damage cabalist using curse for -% rr, Rhowan Crown for flat rr. I can also add % reduced rr via Viper, or Ultos. I had originally gone with Ultos for the light show, but it was pointed out to me that Viper is easier to get and does the same thing. Can anyone here clarify that, I’ve read that Viper is tied to weapon % dmg, but I’ve also heard that is not the case, the debuff applies as it is stated on the devo regardless.
Could anyone help clear this up? Than you.
*edit - How does Viper activate, too? Thanks again.
The theory is that Viper, in contrast to Ultos, applies % Reduced Target’s Elemental Resistances only if you deal weapon damage and scales with it, precisely 20% * Min(100%, Your_WD%), 10% if you have have 50% weapon damage for example.
Ultos works always regardless of weapon damage because it’s on a proc and not your ‘character sheet bonus’.
Sometimes we test stuff and the theory happens to be different than practice though (i.e. %Phys Res vs Armor order).
I tested recently that %Reduced Target’s Resistance from Weapon Augment scales with Weapon damage according to theory.
So if my default attack was something that gives 100% weapon dmg, I would get the 20% elemental rr? But, if say I used no default attack, just had the pets attack or move to where I’d have the default attack bound, I would get 0% elemental rr (nothing of value) from Viper?
Pseudo pets such as Guardians or Blade Spirit don’t benefit from Viper because they have no weapon damage. Not sure about true pets because I’m not a pet player.
Another example is Panetti doesn’t benefit from Viper by default because it has no weapon damage,
but Callidor Tempest does since it has around 50% weapon damage, but not to full extent, because it doesn’t have 100% weapon damage, unless you use Scion of the Screaming which gives it additional 50% weapon damage.
Yes. None of your pets whether player-scaled or pet-scaled can apply Viper’s RR, only your player character can through % weapon damage. If you wanted your pets to be able to apply it you would want to use Hand of Ultos instead as the 20% reduced Elemental resistance is tied to and applied by the proc and cannot be lowered in the same way Viper is lowered by using an attack with less than 100% weapon damage.
This theory exist for many years. RR appliance depend on your WD eg 50% WD skill will net you 10% RR from Viper. I have seen it in forums before and quote it in the mechanics guide.
I guess it can be tested with dummy on low level char.
Would going to 110% weapon dmg effectively give 22% elemental reduction with Viper, then? Or does it hardcap at the 20% mentioned in the devo? Seems the Shard of Beronath would pair nicely with Viper. (Maybe I should look at the 20% as a ratio of rr to weapon dmg and not a cap?)
*edit - Looking at that component and it’s attack more closely. Would Viper rely on the % based on charge level, or the 124% dmg the item states?
Please share insight to my testing methodology and where I might be wrong. I made this single mastery necro with nothing special as far as gear goes and ONLY changed ONE item that was the amulet for the 24% weapon damage to Drain Essense.
41 seconds
We can see in the video when viper is applied to the dummies thanks to Grim Internals. It’s very regular too.
Obviously the few seconds faster in kill time is due to the weapon damage. Having more will be more beneficial than none in any case and 4-5 seconds on average in this case seems to match up just fine with the 24% weapon damage.
If I am to understand what I’m being told it’s that the MORE weapon damage one has the greater the RR that is applied to the target? If this is in fact the case wouldn’t the effect of BOTH the weapon damage AND the increased RR be much more pronounced than a measly 4-5 seconds off a kill?
I would love to see & or hear how others have tested this to come to the conclusion that they have.
The game is constantly making me question what I have thought I knew about it and in some cases I have been incorrect and needed to “relearn” aspects that I previously misunderstood. Even things that @Zantai himself has confessed were errors in the way he had thought.
I’ve started making some test but Dummy seems to take too little damage on Normal from Celestial Presence as if Dummy has some resistance it didn’t have before
I’ll finish the test after I get to the bottom of this. Previously when I made such a test, dummy received what was expected.
[edit] OK nevermind, I had some Global Ele → Phys items on my character
I see. Then I am proven wrong. Thank you for the clarification on that. Now I’m sure ALL discussions on this in the future will end up here~ As it pops up still to this day and it will continue to do so.
I will add though that while it may be in fact the mathematics behind the formula that prove this to be the case neither in my test nor yours is the difference stark enough for anyone to notice in-game, let alone in combat. Which really makes me wonder if this is another programming error or if it was done intentionally? At least this finally clears it up for me.
regarding the “pseudo pets can’t trigger Viper”
am i completely unhinged when i think/say that they can, as long as they are using a devotion with weapon damage?
only issue just being the WD scaling since it would need to be a 100%WD devo for pseudo pets to apply full viper effect (which doesn’t exist, right?)
Devotion procs should work as well for applying it, even partially. I think the most/best one in this case would be Blind Fury at 75% weapon damage, any others that get close are on hit procs like Vire, Hyrian’s Glare, or Empyrion.
Not with the amount of weapon damage that character is pushing. At the most, 24% of 6133-6832 weapon damage is ~1472-1640. If we assumed that all of that were pure Cold damage for a best case scenario, it would functionally be equivalent to adding ~63-70 Cold damage as a skill modifier to Drain Essence. The actual amount will be lower as in practice your weapon and flat damages aren’t pure Cold and the damage types like Vitality have a lower +% damage value.
What I’m trying to say anyhow is that yes it’s a damage increase but for the amount of weapon damage the character has, it’s not going to be a massive gain. Viper only applying 24% of it’s effect alongside very little or no -x% Cold RR here also greatly diminishes the effect it has as x% reduced RR is multiplicative.
which gives it additional 50% weapon damage.
(Maybe I should look at the 20% as a ratio of rr to weapon dmg and not a cap?)
