He wants builds, not the site itself.
It’s a bit of a paradox. I see the changes as healthy for the game long term, especially for newer players that could come with an expansion on the way. At the same time the changes upend a lot of time spent farming and making builds for the core player base of the game. So on one hand it’s correct, but they are balancing for a player that might play the game, not for the player who plays now.
And looking at the changes, with how much enemy physical damage is reduced being undisclosed, it still looks like my min/maxed Warlord would be much less impacted by these changes than more squishy experimental builds.
Also this is something I’ve always been praising Crate for that Grim Dawn unlike other games like PoE never felt unfair. Like when dying in Grim Dawn it’s 99% because of my own hubris. When dying in PoE it’s 99% because the game is pulling something stupid. So the changes to Sunder make really no sense to me and I hope the game does not go in a direction where I just die out of nowhere with 0.5 seconds time to react. Obviously I’m not talking about fighting Ravager and him 2 shotting me.
Agree. Most D-likes give monsters crazy damage and low margin of error but GD didn’t. Hope that wouldn’t change.
Light’s Defender Stormreaver Elementalist Elementalist, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Light’s Defender Purifier Purifier, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Valdun Tactician Tactician, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Fire AAR Sorc Sorcerer, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Chaos Shattering Smash Sentinel Sentinel, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Vanquisher Set Blazerush Templar Templar, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Just to reiterate, I’m not saying any of these builds are perfect or couldn’t be improved. But they all did what I wanted them to do previously and feel notably worse in some way now. It is likely that with say the changes to seal of might that any of these builds I want to use for farming on a regular basis might have some component changes going forward.
Of the Three Acid Retal Sentinel, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator (This is probably just a pretty badly constructed build honestly, but I don’t really think I’ll be playing it again since I don’t love retal and enjoy other aegis builds more).
Just to give some counterexamples, these builds were some of the ones that felt least impacted.
Loxmere Coldbreaker (Spellbreaker, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator)
Stormserpent Trickster (Trickster, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator)
Myrmidon Oppressor (Oppressor, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator)
Spam BH Ritualist (Ritualist, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator)
Spam Chaos Aegis Shieldbreaker (Shieldbreaker, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator)
how much is less even 1dmg is less
So im throwing my 2 cents in here.
I 100 % agree with this:
I playtested most of my builds yesterday (mainly DW Nightblades) and SR 75-76 and 80-81 feels almost the same for every build. Celestials are significantly harder now but i think thats a good thing (Calla needs some tweaking for sure).
From my limited testing i would make the prediction that:
If your build had high phys. resitance, low armor and no / low flat absorb → your build will feel weaker now. For example my Rah’zin Witch Hunter feels a little squshier in SR than before.
On the other hand if you lost alot of phys. res. and got compensated by armor, SR can even feel easier. My N&O Sabo lost 31% physres but gained ~ 800 armor and feels safer in SR now.
But there are 2 things i would like adress that im not happy with:
- Why further reducing class specific phys. res.? NB, Occ and Inquis are not tanky by an means so it feels strange.
- If the sunder changes go through, please telegraph some attacks better / make them easier to avoid.
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This attack is not well-telegraphed and, I’m dead sure, shares the style, animation and effects with exactly the same fucking projectile burst, but without sunder. How it works in practice is, Zantarin is back to randomly deleting Blitz and Shadow strike users on a misjudged cast. It was annoying in AOM when he did that. It’s still annoying now. At least Iron maiden is fair, as in “you reliably know her Blitz is coming and, once you dealt with it at the start of the fight, you never will have to deal with it again”.
There’s generally a widespread issue with human-sized bosses and their telegraphs, and that issue is they can all go and get fucked. Again, I called Maiden fair because hers is easy to read in the fight - there the girl comes, ready your dodge. Reading Sunder telegraphs on Sentinel is painful, because animation is buried under all the attack effects. Reading Sunder telegraphs on Outcast is painful for the same reason, AND requires you to memorize and perfectly execute the delay timing, with only option being dodge. Sunder telegraph on Alkamos is painful to read AND is purposefully obtuse, because the guy has incredibly slow attack to throw you off. All of that doubles for their Shattered versions, to the point where Shattered Theodin is a joke, but Shattered Outcast is a run-ender. Human-sized mobs are hard to read in the mess of effects, all of them. And whatever changes supposedly will make Iron maiden worse, will make the rest of that cast worse tenfold.
Not sure if focusing more on health regen would help or not from your skill points
I would try a different devotion by focusing on health regen and see how it feels
My vindicator mage as an exemple : Vindicator, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Not sure for those 2 
, I mean I don’t know how I would make them better, especially for the Valdun tactician (it looks good overall).
Maybe a weapon with of the abyss suffixe (on Bloodlord’s blade)
Seal of the void could also help by having 2 procs that do AOE damage + healing (from damage converted to hp)
Not sure, masteries don’t have health regen and both skills are on cooldown. The problem could be there kinda, depends how bad it is and how you play it i guess. Another charge through mobility skill could be needed to stay mobile on the battlefield. I can see this build being mobile with 2 charge through skill + evade but I dunno if that alone would fix the problem you have in game with the build
I could see this being a problem, depends how bad it is in game (SR 75-75 or SR 80-81 ?). While being squisher, is it a matter of survivability (in terms of death or not in SR) ?
What do you mean “back to”? The attack in question deals vitality+acid damage, so it’s literally unaffected by the physical damage change. The sunder increase is getting reverted.
It is and it doesn’t share its animation with any other skill. It’s a unique animation with the sunder fx on top, it’s literally impossible to miss. I can understand people being annoyed by e.g. dravis’ / sister crimson’s / brother segarius’ volcano sunder, but Zantarin’s attack has been in the game and easy to play around since 2016.
4 Likes
i’m not, i’m testing “crap” to, stuff that didn’t do 75-76 before but does now
that is what im basing my statement on, “qualifying” enough for you to permit i dispense with the BS kneejerk reactions people are making?
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tell me if you spot it
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Was replying to the “anyone who has actually tested this…” statement. I’m not disputing anyone’s experience with their own testing. I simply object to assuming one’s experiences are universal on something like this where there are a bunch of people testing these things.
All of the experiences posted here are data points. So are experiences people didn’t post (e.g. Reinan’s experience with Ravager, though to be fair the quotation I replied to did have a qualifier about celestials).
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that’s the point, they are not…
you have people complaining about sunder being too high; while eating sunder that’s deliberately there to be avoided
you have people posting their experience that eating sunder is harder; when that’s the intent
you don’t have people posting experiences directly on the lowered phys dmg changes, but reacting to phys res reducts; which clearly wasn’t played
^this is why i’m specifically running chars i didn’t do 75-76 before with, why i’m running low hp or low phys res sht that by all those accounts shouldn’t be able to do 75-76 now; but does
the sole ones pertaining to it but did play it; is complaining 4boss pull is harder “when they are supposed to be hard(er)” - because devs wont accept it as a standard
yes my experiences/feedback exists in a vacuum, because it’s only my experience, but by any and all those reaction’s accounts, my experiences supposedly shouldnt’ even be possible in the first place… which is the nonsense reactions i’m specifically trying to “counter” showcase
the big key takeaway remains enemy phys dmg was lowered, to the point the phys res reducts is not remotely as bad as people are trying to make it seem - and if they maintain that, my stance can only be they didn’t actually play the game
if i were to take top20 build tests into account to (which i am testing too yes); you would not like the feedback i would make and the changes i would suggest, because holy sht do we need more nerfs then… 
but since this change is specifically about survival, i’m doing regular builds, squish stuff, my own stuff, stuff that wouldn’t be so strong it would barely notice a change…
5 Likes
I’m almost too stunned for words that a single sentence about experiences posted here being data points is a source of controversy. I understand why you might find some of the comments frustrating but come on. Can we please dial it back just a bit now?
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i’ll repeat; what experiences, because aside from you, i’ve seen nothing but what i mentioned
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Well i ran 4-5x SR 75-76 and piloted like i would in 1.2.0 and had some near death experiences while pulling lots of mobs at once. Boss rooms are still fine on that character, doing it the DW nb way of picking out 1 at the time. But i dont feel like it beeing a problem on that character specificly because the build was made to facetank ravager and it can still very comfortably do it. But yeah non high perfroming melee builds that were reliant on having high phys res while having low armor / flat absorb need a little help imo.
I dont know what you mean by this?
Your stance on data-points is not controversial, its flat our wrong. If this thread and the discussions that took place contained of ppl playtesting their builds and just reporting their experiences, yeah you would be 100 % correct but this is not what happend so far. If you or anyone dislikes the changes made to the game, thats completley fine, but claming sunder is op becasue zantarin 1 shots you, is just ridiculus, or claiming a build lost its ability to tank while facetanking all SR 75 bosses. These “Data” points would only lead to wrong conclusions about the state of the game.
Also this never happend. If you are able to demonstrate where the changes negativley impact your gameplay, noone would object to that and, im pretty sure, the developers would take that into account.
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Turns out i made more runs with my Lightning Firestrike Pyromancer : Pyromancer, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
I changed some skill points to soft cap Searing light modifier (from Flashbang) and it felt much better in 80-81.
I also tried my Physical cadence Warlord and it feels better now I think in SR 80-81 : Warlord, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Also tried more the Infiltrator Belgo build, it felt ok although a bit more squishy than some other builds.
I think I might add the Inquisotor Seal to the build but here’s the build without the inquisitor seal : Infiltrator, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Also don’t have Tortoise which will be the goal when I can fix resistances
Ok thanks! Yea Nightblade can be a bit more squishy, for some builds I tend to move a lot and aim ennemies a bit away from a pack or at least I go on the edge (with shadow strike or any other mobility skills) of a pack of ennemies, or even move away a bit if you can’t do that right away
2 Likes
You’re welcome to your opinion. I’ve posted gameplay experiences here and in another thread. There are several other threads here in this part of the forum that deals with the playtest patch with people who have posted their experiences (mostly not in this particular thread, which I think reasonable folks can agree got a bit out of hand in places, but on this forum and clearly visible). There are also people who have done playtesting who don’t post on the forums but who have streamed parts of their playtest. I’ve done my best to be even-handed here, but the tone of your post and people making sweeping claims that anyone who had playtested the patch would know there was no change in tankiness (which was said earlier if you read the thread and is an example of what I would call assuming one’s experience is universal) does make posting here a frustrating experience, and it really shouldn’t be.
I’m here because I want to see this patch be better and because there are experiences that should be shared that don’t necessarily get echoed by the people who post regularly on these forums. There are valid data points outside what can be a bit of an echo chamber. Cherry-picking a couple of comments about Zantarin and inability to pull 4 bosses at once (which I’d remind you were not made by me) doesn’t tell the full story.
but that’s not being dealt with here tho, which is the point, hence why i mentioned what was being presented here, and how that’s just not very conducive to much of anything meaningful…
→
complaining 90% sunder is too high on an attack 3000% intended to avoid and easily avoidable is just completely pointless; regardless if you played the patch or not just reacting on sheet changes
arguing if 50% sunder is too high on regular sunder attacks is too high is an entire different thing, one which i was specifically asking about; but was never addressed by anyone here
so yes, the “experiences” presented here is not there…
(probably also why those other threads haven’t “derailed”, because stuff is actually meaningful there while here it’s been nonsense reactions throughout…)
2 Likes
After all this, is the issue that I was using here in a single sentence to refer a bit more broadly to mean “here in this subforum” versus “here in this thread.” Yikes? Okay. I apologize for my role in any ambiguity. I have to admit I never expected one sentence in a short post telling someone that I thought his language about people knowing there was no change in tankiness was overbroad since it didn’t match at least my experience would erupt like this. I guess I kind of expected a, “Yeah, maybe there are some changes but less than people think and boy did this thread get off the rails a bit” sort of response.