as the titel already states I have a few mechanic quesions while thinking of a “Scaling with Player Bonus”-summons build. Honestly a lot of Questions came up regarding skill mechanics, procs, buffs and conversion
So this is the general idea:
The build should use as many as possible summons that scale with player bonuses and let these use procs that have as little as cool down as possible.
I wanted to center this build around the item “Nightbringer” which can drop from morgoneth. Following this idea i endet up with a build which tries to convert as much damage to vitality as possible which is plausible if we look at “nightbringer”
For a better understanding here is a link to my first draft of the build:
Im going to start with some skill related questions:
Are totems actual targets that can be hit by monsters for example by AoE skills? idifferent to guardian of empyrion and wind devil they are not “incinvible”
If so: can they trigger equipment procs with “chance to be hit”?
If so: do they retaliate?
can the guardian trigger “chance on attack” proc that need a meele weapon? or rather are they actually using weapons or is it just animation?
if the proc dmg is (partially) based on weapon damage is the weapon damage of “nightbringer” added? or what happens here?
same question about possible percentage of added retaliation damage: what happens?
mogdrogen’s pact adds flat physical damage which should also apply to the summons. The amulet I chose adds a physical to vitality conversion. Does the conversion apply to mogdrogen’s pact.
wendigo totem replenishes X% + Y of health every 0,5 sec
does somebody has a number for me?
how is cool down reduction and attack speed applied here?
storm totem’s “storm strike” does not have a skill cool down in it’s description. i just observed that it pretty quick…
Attack speed:
can someone explain to me why grim tools is showing my attack speed with 91%. Do i have some kind of permament slow effect which i’m not aware of? i can’t find anything that would explain it.
Also the weapon has a base attack speed of 1.43/sec but the overal attack speed is stated with 1.63 although the multiplier is 91%. I can’t make any sense of this… -.-
life leech:
if summons scale with player bonues i assume that “attack damage converted to health” is also applied. (works only if weapon damage is included…)
is guardian of empyrion using a melee weapon and therefore has a weapon damage which works with attack damage converted to health?
Is my character getting the health or what happens here?
what happens when a equipment proc includes weapon damage?
solar girdle:
apparently it is not possible for this item to have an affix and a suffix… is it because it is a crafted item?
I think that’s it for now. Thanks alot for your insights
1, no, atleast not afaik
and player scaled pets don’t get retal either afaik
2, 3, 4 no, pets can’t trigger procs
5 Mog pact adds global flat dmg per normal global flat dmg rule require’s %weapon dmg, player scaled pets don’t use %weapon dmg at base, so it would only apply to potential devotion attached to the pet
6, wendigo heals 1x/sec just for twice the value
pets don’t benefit from your speed or CDR on their attacks (afaik atleast for CDR)
7 every pet have an innate attack frequency or cooldown on their skills, it wont be listed in pet skill tootip and has to be observed in game files or GT pet db(wont show for all skills)
you have a base multiplier aside from a weapon multiplier, slow weapon = less than 100% attack speed with 0 bonuses
i don’t remember if it was fixed/applied yet, but there was a tooltip discrepancy because it wasn’t factoring in the base player multiplier i think
either way any immediate discrepancy you see can usually be tossed up to the hidden base multiplier char starts with
no
because passive/global lifesteal requires weapon dmg to apply and pets use non at base
no and no
rest = pets don’t trigger procs etc
(and as for devos they are just/still using your stats so counts as if you triggered it)
^but if you attach Maul or Wendigo devo to pets it will not heal you, only devotions with %weapon dmg can heal you if attached to player scaled pets(twin fangs etc)
base rare items only get 1 affix when crafted
if the base item was yellow it could get 2 affixes
Thanks for explaining everything. That clarifies alot.
Just to make sure regarding procs. Do character skaling pets really do not trigger equipment procs? Also not the proc which does NOT need a meelee weapon. Aren’t their attacks considered a hit “from a player”?
overall idea still works btw, just needs a bit of tweaking
Player scaled pet builds is something people have dabbled in for a long time, in various forms, and some have even kiledl celestials
As for the proc part, keep in mind you will usually still use some form of player skills for debuff, and those can then carry proc triggers,
likewise could in theory just make the char so tanky it stands there taking any hits required for "on/when hit"procs
valid point following the discussion but i already have a monster of a retal char and for now I want to create something new. but still thank u for ur optionion
after looking into some item options i cant find a good way to have a “scaling with player”-summon build which is tanky enough to just stand still. i think i will just try it the way planned it and just use devouring swarm as my only aatack skill which triggers every item proc. it should be playable nontheless. especially since the majority of the damage will be vit and devouring swarm together with celestial presence will reduce the enemy res by a wooping 95%. .
sadly there is no item that adds weapon damage to devouring swarm. that would be insane
should be a banger
I have a related question that I am wondering a long time about.
If I attach Tsunami proc to Wind Devils for example. Does every Wind Devil use its own Tsunami with its own cooldown or is the cooldown shared between all the Wind Devils?
In other words:
Can 3 Wind Devils proc 3 different Tsunamis simultaneously or is Tsunami set on cooldown for all Wind Devils if one of them procs the skill, so that only one Tsunami could be cast at a time.
If I understood the question right, I would probably disagree with Gnomish_Inquisition.
Since I do similar builds I would argue that Player Scaled Pets do trigger weapon procs.
For example, do you mean with “weapon procs” something like Ice Spike from the “of the Winter Storm” suffix? I think if Blade Spirits attack, they cause the Ice Spikes from my gear to fire from my character to the closest enemy. It is just, that, unfortunately the Blade Spirits dont shoot their own Ice Spikes which would be cool. … I like to stack such procs if you guessed it, and its pretty fun.
Also, If you want to stack invincible Player Scaled Pets, you could include the Nemesis relic. It summons a player scaled, immortal Nemesis Cat for efficient Nemesis hunting.
cooldown is now shared, in the old days it was separate that’s why you might see old post saying so.
Naturally this led to some crazy devo use/stacking so fixed devo is 1 cooldown all around, ie only 1 Tsunami at a time
they do not, and it’s very easy to observe using training dummies where you never use any attack yourself
There are a lot of variations on the theme, and any combo that includes Oathkeeper, Shaman and Nightblade can potentially accomplish that. Blade spirit in particular stands out as the most powerful of the bunch.
The passivist thread that @Bas linked above has a host of experiments and a lot of them use player-scaling pets to do the heavy lifting.
Can confirm this. I was actually skeptical since I’ve very often observed procs while doing nothing, but rigorous testing showed no procs whatsoever from PSP in my test… A little embarassing to figure out now considering the number of PSP builds I made, but hey!..you learn something every day!
it’s because it’s super easy for like 99.9% of builds to actually have some form of attack
Bas mentioned veil of shadows, which is “obviously” an attack source, little known fact is it’s ofc also a crit source
then you have debuff procs able to trigger procs iirc, so like if your Veil of Shadows trigger Seal of Annihilation? or if you had triggered Assassin’s Mark on a target with one of yours attack, those debuffs ticking also counts as attacks and can then trigger your item procs too
one or the other or both, i don’t remember which scenario it was
In either case, you can actually sometimes end up with this seemingly endless cycle of item triggering procs without actually having done much of any or only 1 direct attack yourself, where procs just keep going for 30-90secs/“infinite” or something crazy
And ofc in actual combat that/such chain even would ofc be easy to miss and then attribute to surely it was the pets
*fwiw there is/was at one point a single item or interaction where either skeletons or guardians of empyrions specifically could trigger on death procs?(or was it a crit item?) i think, but only in some relation with the on death proc that summoned ghosts.
i don’t remember which i was there was some funny unique 1-2 item proc interaction with 1-2 pets uniquely
.