Rebuilding Area's, Revered quest Outposts, and General visual world building updates tied to quests

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
,
1

Preface: Grim Dawn already has more interactions with consequences than most rpg’s and especially aprg’s out there. Specifically the visual changes that show that your actions result in in-game changes and make the world feel more lived in.
The one I always go back to is the Fabric quest as it instantly visually changes Devil’s Crossing from a ruin to a makeshift survivor’s home. Even fixing the water, just a colour change from poisonous green to clear water is something. More would be even better.

Trying to avoid writing an essay so I’ll do it in point form, but it’ll still be long, sorry.

  • Returning the Mead to Mykola could have a follow up of some kind to rebuild the meadery, it could involve an iron bit donation, another item to get, or the mead could be enough, and just be an instant update (like the DC fabric quest), to get the meadery up and running.

  • If you helped Maldurf he could be there getting hammered (could ask Mykola to cut him off XD)

  • Helping the Meadery rebuild, lets you get a free drink like the free meals at other factions, maybe giving a 5% freeze res buff for a few minutes as this is quite a cold place…

  • When you get revered with Homestead they talk about shipments of corn going to Devil’s Crossing, and we do get an update from Barnabas that it’s begun to arrive. How, is a different question as all the roads are destroyed or blocked unless you rebuild the bridge at Twin Falls.

  • Would be great to either have that as a requirement or an additional quest where the shipment is stuck somewhere along the route, and needs your help, culminating in the bridge being repaired. And ending with an actual wagon near Barnabas, with the food store crates being unloaded and DC supply crates getting ready to be loaded for the return trip.

-The more ambitious of such potential additions that I don’t expect would be possible until GD2 is actually making something of the Malmouth Harbor and the shipping they keep referring to. Not that we need a fast travel option with the rift system. And as it ties to other possible locations, I don’t have any idea’s to make this one work beyond adding some npc’s to the harbour that are working on getting a ship repaired.
-The world map shows that Devil’s Crossing, Tyrant’s Hold, Lone Watch, New Harbor, Arkovian Docks, etc are right along the coast, there are some river systems running near the Coven’s Refuge and Barrowholm. Fort Ikon is quite cutoff but Homestead does have some potential options due east for a port outpost.

This actually leads to another far more ambitious idea, that’s for a new set of revered faction quests to create specific outposts in the world. I’ll put this in a details drop down list as it’s lengthy

Summary

(ultimately I don’t think it can be done in GD1, but the principal idea could be implemented in some way in GD2) The biggest hurdle with this is that it could seriously mess with spawn locations of field bosses and totems. There are work arounds, like making the outpost a doorway to the outpost, kind of like how Sorrow’s Bastion is just 2 guards and a doorway and everything of note is inside. Though my personal preference would be for an actual retaking of certain area’s like Steel Cap District’s rift. The location’s for these outposts being the biggest challenge of what makes logical sense for each faction and without, again, messing with the boss/totem spawn locations.

  • Homestead needs more fields, and we could even get an update from Daila(post FG) if we could retake Thornsbury farm. Though Withering fields and Elmsworth both have no boss/totem spawns either. They are without a doubt the easiest.
  • DC is tough, as the entire map towards Burrwhich is just so densely packed. It would either have to be a small outpost like some advance foraging party with just 2-3 guards and maybe 1-3 npc’s, probably in Mud Row near the East March bridge, or something towards Homestead that acts as a lore-friendly way of giving those trade caravans a safe midpoint. Maybe in the Rocky Coast, south of the shrine but north of the Detonation site. Or Twin Falls either where you find Helen Fletcher and Julius Cole, or south of them where the bridge is broken to Broken Hills. another option is an island outpost you get to by boat like Hargate’s Isle. Vague location, I know. Maybe the NPC’s could mention planned shipments to and from Malmouth (Post AoM)
  • Black Legion is a tough one as they’re in multiple locations. I’ve always wondered where they’re getting all their gunpowder from since they’re so cannon and gun heavy. Tyrant’s Hold and Arkovian Docks would make the most lore logical sense, but difficult to do. An outpost encroaching on Darkvale, from the Asterkarn road side would also be an option.
  • Malmouth likely doesn’t actually need one, as the Harbor quest literally does this already.
  • Kymon, Death’s Vigil, Outcast, Barrowholm, Coven, and the FG factions I don’t really have idea’s for. Most either don’t seem to want to go past their specific location like Coven and Barrowholm, or give the sense that they don’t really actually do permanent settlements and are already just an outpost that’s made to last until their mission is completed before they move on and disperse.
  • Kurn have some nearby options in Freyoll Valley and Voldur River, Ulo’s river has a few spots. And there exists a possible joint Kurn/Black Legion attempt to create new relations with an outpost in Frostveil Highlands.
  • Of note, the core principle of these ideas is doing an action to help a faction in a location, and having a visual advancement for that faction in that location and maybe a dialogue or two from a few npc’s. I am definitely not suggesting any city builder/survival game, tiered upgrade system that’ll turn Homestead into a fortress… Or anything that will give major rewards or involves maintenance, this is just not that kind of game. But rebuilding a meadery, putting a wagon with Homestead supplies in DC, factions establishing outposts or camps with a couple of npc’s/guards. We already have such things, I’m asking for more.

I know some people would consider such details and additions a waste of time, but I’ve always felt Grim Dawn actually pays more attention to world building than most. And it really does show to those that don’t just speed click through all interactions. Heck it was only on my 3rd run through FoA that I learned I could return the weapon shipment to someone other than Joonast… and this entire post might have spawned from me missing an entire way to rebuild the meadery…
Thanks for reading.

1 Like
2

I am wholeheartedly behind you, in that the map —the scene — should change as quests are solved.
For example I’ve often thought how ridiculous it is when you’ve burned down the pregnancy center at the Fleshworks that the moaning still goes on in the background. Once the Aetherial boss is dead all of the ethereal damage areas should dissipate or start crumbling apart.
After solving a few quests, as another example, the beast that invaded Devil’s Crossing should have been cleared out. But it stays forever. Nobody ever cleans it up - even though they said they would get to it!

However as a map modder, I also know that making maps is tedious, time-consuming and using Grim Dawn’s engine, not easily interchangeable. In many places, though, it’s apparent to me where maps got finished, but later never fixed or tweaked because its priority got pushed down as new issues or inspirations welled up. There are numerous places where there is no sound at waterfalls, where running water is WAY too fast, or the background sound has incongruent randomized one-shots.
It’s obvious the devs tried in the game’s beginning, when solved quests resulted in improvements to the old prison. And it’s revisited in Malmouth as new camp members populate Steelcap the more that the city is recaptured. These prove that it can be done with conscientious attention to player experience.

As sales improve with FoA, we can only hope that Crate will add more artists, creative writers, and not just programmers to their small staff. I’d love to see the ARPG merged seamlessly with a rich story and an evolving landscape.

2 Likes
3

While I really love the ideas here, I hope Crate considers them for the next release and improve mostly for the sake of gameplay for this one. We have to let the developers put the creativity behind a new project by now.

2 Likes
4

Thank you, that’s exactly my feeling.

I did not realize the engine was so hard to work with. I kind of just assumed that because they have been able to do it in the past and in FoA on some scale, that they ran out of time or naturally put it as lowest priority since it doesn’t directly effect gameplay itself. So we just got what we got, but some stuff was cut.

This simultaneously sounds awesome, but also sounds like it would be very difficult to add.
My thoughts on this overall, is small changes that aren’t huge in scope are where the most possibilities exist (atleast for gd1). Messing with the background sounds, that’s beyond me. Also, as cool as it would be to have a kind of “final” state to the Fleshworks after we’re done, it would have to be reset back to normal every reload as it’s a place that is often re-run for items. I think we have something similar in Ancient Grove when it’s on fire. I am not a map modder so I don’t know if that would require essentially turning the Fleshworks into a Skeleton Key style dungeon that you cannot re-enter until you relog? I do fully expect some kind of follow-up in GD2 to Malmouth. Whether they’re still burning all the fleshwork flesh, or have created some nasty pile, or just a comment that they still can’t get rid of the smell…

Yeah, I’m not expecting any of these ideas to get implemented. Or if something does get implemented it would be in their own way. It’s really just to give this feedback. A search of the forum’s didn’t show any thread like this that I could find. If nothing else, I hope the dev’s know that, yes, many of us do notice the details, we do see there are alternative dialogue’s depending on the order you do things, arriving to places you shouldn’t have access to. We see the game state and how it evolves. It’s fantastic and I hope they continue doing it, whether in GD1 or on a greater scale in GD2.

5

You can look at this as a chicken-or-the-egg scenario: because GD’s maps dont change, it led to farming after your character completed the quests. OR, GD’s maps were never meant to change thru separate run-thrus because the creators wanted players to farm.

Personally i think its the former — the engine cant (easily) swap maps, and, outside of scripts, youre stuck with ambient sound generators, particle emission sources, and baked textures. I mean, the devs COULD change out the maps when quests are solved, but they either spend a lot of time making and tweaking before and after maps, or they must make a complicated script which replaces map assets dynamically. Either spend a lot of time with more world construction, or spend no time and let your customers farm for better loot. The rest is history.

Myself, i like story, exploration, discovery, and character development. While we dont play GD for that, but rather for the action and adrenaline, it’s not exactly devoid of story either. The idea of constellations, constrained camera control, and hidden off-map areas are to me genius game aspects which keep me interested. If their modding tools were more intuitive and connected, i would have made 3 rich map mods for them already. For not being 3D-immersible, simplistic in character development, and limited in world layout, i still would want to use their engine for my own RPGs.

The good thing is, Z and his crew have learned a LOT about game engine design and i bet hes gonna incorporate these lessons in his next engine. (My only hope is that they concentrate on easy-to-use modding tools from the inception.)

1 Like