GT is great, but to use it properly you still need to be somewhat experienced, I think.
And hey, I asked this question because I kinda wanted to know the answer(s). If I wanted to play right now I would do so.
And people read guides because they want to. For some, reading about their hobby is a part of that hobby.
@XandeRoot, I feel the same as you, that people are dumb and just want shit spoonfed at them instead of trying to learn the game themselves. This applies not just to GD or gaming but life in general. But that doesnât justify hating the existence of guides. Your main argument against guides is that it makes people skip learning the basics and stuff like that. But I think we all should remember that itâs basically how we learn stuff most of the time.
I learned my primary language by hearing and copying what people around me say, then having my parents explain to me what to say. I learned whatever it is I learned at school by having my teachers explain to me whatever it is that theyâre showing on the board. I learned how to do my job at work by having people train me on how to do it. Of course you have to learn some things by yourself but unless youâre the one who first discovered shit youâre bound to have that shit fed to you by another person unless youâre intentionally living under a rock. Itâs then up to you to decide how to use that shit.
Now your second argument, GD is just a game. You donât need it to be the same as real life. You try to invalidate what I said above, as well as what other people who responded to you. But the thing is, gaming is also real life (surprising, isnât it?). The one playing is you. The real you. Meaning thereâs a huge tendency that the methods you used on learning things irl will be the same as in gaming. If you donât conform to that then itâs fine. You do you. But you donât represent the majority of mankind. And thatâs how the majority learns.
If people see guides, just blindly follow them, not learn anything (especially if itâs a good guide) and then complain then thatâs their problem. If brain cells could be transplanted then theyâll need that.
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Yeah, but those are the things your very life hinges upon.
It should be obvious that English isnât my native language. How did I learn it? Well, I got some basics from school, but those were really primitive and dated (far as languages go). What I did is I started reading and listening, getting a feel of when and how to speak in complex sentences. This you donât learn in school, not where Iâm from at least. And something tells me learning something new and even alien having just a 101 on the subject is a lot more difficult and challenging than playing a game for 50 hours.
You still donât get it. Itâs not about how easy or how hard it is to learn. It never was. In most people the learning process across most things is similar. You get instruction, you experience the thing, you try to understand the instruction and the experience so you learn. The amount of each step as well as the order itself will vary depending on what youâre learning but itâs still all the same in principle. Guides fill the void of instruction, since the game gives you all the experience already but little to no instruction.
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Norway? No way 
About guides, I will always suggest first time players to try testing skills/devotions etc and discover stuff themselves. BUT if they stuck and want help, itâs better to have dedicated online resources . I for example always suggest players to not follow guides to the letter. Itâs better if players learn from them why certain things work and next time to use the knowledge to help them with their own build.
But of course there are players that donât have time or desire to learn the mechanics or to make trial/errors runs. They want simply to follow guide with good enough explanations, nothing wrong with that. When I start game and struggle, I also check online for information. Without players, who are spending time writing helpful info online, it will be much harder to get into games and enjoy them!
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Of course. If people raise reasonable questions then it means they wish to learn. That is also why FAQs exist. And if someone posts a build saying they die a lot to âenemy Xâ and ask how their build can be improved, thereâs no reason not to help, I wonât deny it.
But if they struggle even when receiving digested information like âat level 8 put one point in this skill and equip this componentâ, then itâs beyond any hope. Thatâs the reason why we have games like Skyrim. A beatiful game, but behind the pretty scenery hides a whole lot of nothing. Would someone on this forum enjoy for GD sequel be like this? Hopefully not.
Stuff like that are threads I just donât try to open if I get the hint. Cause itâs beyond dumb
Yeah, but people say thereâs demand for it, soâŚ
Yes some people need and want that kind of information. Just because you have 140 iq and are willing to play your first char 500h and still not beat elite warden krieg does not mean everyone are willing to do so.
Which is true. Guides donât just exist for the entitled. They exist for everyone. Youâre trying to go to the other extreme end.
I think arguing over this is pointless at this point. None of you will change each otherâs opinion and in the end, people who want to make guides will make guides and people who follow guides will follow them. If they donât want to do that, then they wonât (:
I watch twitch streams from time to time that arenât regular GD streamers like Rektbyprotoss MikeFic and most of them do first playthroughs blindly so itâs not like ppl that do wanna experience things by themselves donât exist.
And this used to be a thread about reddit builds
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This used to be on Ulvarâs beginner compendium which got separated cause the reddit thing was off topic. Then we got off topic again 
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Off-topic in the off-topic 
MikeFic was the one to learn (the hard way) that arcane mobs can nullify you by hitting a destructible piece. That information was invaluable. Crate fixed this issue as a result. Canât read it in any guide, can you?
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I discovered how OA and DA actually relates with dodge and crit chance (the easy way) and got better at the game as a result. Can read it in a crapton of guides (including the official one), canât you?
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Letâs shoot all the beginners and get over it already!
Jokes aside. It took a long time to read all posts here and I would feel as an outsider if I donât reply all.
First the facts! Letâs be honest, the game itself a bit tricky, provides only basic informations and requires a good enough english knowledge or translation pack. I donât remember exactly who but some time ago, a person posted here ââyou need a phd to play this gameââ. Itâs kinda true. You need to do good amount of research to play GD properly. How do you research? By reading existing materials such as beginner guides and mechanic guides. Or you test by yourself but the second option might take a huge amount of time and creates the possibility of overlooking some important things.
I bought the game blindly, because I needed a distraction, I wasnât even a gamer back then but I needed to stay home and focus something else rather than troubling things. I also started to game blindly, I had some experience in such games so I started as a soldier, thought the easiest start would be physical. After 250 hours and 2 months of testing, experimenting, stashing, creating new characters in order to use interesting items I found(what a mistake!) etc, I couldnât finished ultimate with a single character. Then I start to do research. Videos didnât make any sense of me so I mostly read, then created a forum account, kept reading. Decided on a character, created a thread and asked help. Didnât follow any guides but I certainly needed help and I really donât see a big difference between following a guide or posting help to improve my toon except one is easy way, other is hard way.
And people helped me. Some kindly, some arrogantly but I appreciate all their efforts. Because I was a slow learner, even after finishing ultimate the first time or killing the lokarr for the first time it took 700-800 hours of me to comprehend the Grim Dawn fully. And thatâs not included the research time! I did read a lot of beginner guides after that even though I never followed them. I read discussions and other informative texts to learn how to make a build. All the effort and I wasnât protoss or nery yet, I had just spent 800 hours to overcome noobness! For a game! Why? Because I really enjoyed it. Even being suck at it was fun because GD has a lot of surprising mechanics and discovering them one by one, step by step felt like being Nikola Tesla or Yuri Gagarin.
So why the hell I did explain all the process I went through? Because, I took the hard way, but if I did follow some guides, make my first toon to be a successful MC farmer it may have shorten the process for me, though I would certainly got bored from it. But everyone is different, maybe some other people get bored from being suck for 200 hours! And even after that, and even now, there were/are things for me to explore in the game. I still read discussions, I also test the information by myself. 1800+ hours and I still learning new things about the game. For example I play legit but I would be damned if some players who use GDstash tested things(hard to test without gdstash) and provided the information with the public. Same applies here, you can like or dislike the beginner build guides, follow or improvise but you canât disrespect them because all informative texts written by veteran players are explanation of GD for new ur inexperienced players. Because people who make those guides love the game and they want other/new people to love it aswell.
So the beginner guides are mandatory. The people who make them are doing a good, volunteer work! As the people share the knowledge they test. Even though everyoneâs attitude and patience is different; new players are lucky to have them. Yes I hate people ask for end-game builds half an hour after they bought the game. I also want every new player improvise at the beginning but the game is really complex without atleast reading some informative guides about mechanics. And not everyone has time to go that way.
Thanks for reading my acedemic paper Forum= Scientific Journal. Reddit= Magazine
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I guess you earned your GD PhD finally!
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The fault in your argument is the assumption that people want to be experienced in a game theyâve never played before. Many are just looking for a quick guide to get them through story/xpac content and thatâs that. Others donât know whether theyâll want more than that - one of my friends, for instance, followed a beginner guide thinking theyâd be done with the game in 20h and wound up dumping several hundred hours into the game.
A beginner guide is rarely comprehensive, as later comments in this thread have revealed. The intricacies of Grim Dawn still mystify even veterans to this day. Rarely is there too much spoiled by a good one-time handholding experience.
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Iâm not sure thereâs anything wrong with some people wanting to hop into a hobby without needing to learn everything the hard way. They want to jump in, grab some loot and unwind. For others, doing it all themselves and discovering the game mechanics is part of the fun.
Neither is an inherently incorrect way to approach any game.
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