Regarding block

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

Hi! Quick question:

Have you considered get rid of block recovery? I find a bit anoying the lack of consistency, in the sense that sometimes i can’t tell what i am and am not blocking, specially against big bosses with some adds (Mog, Aldritch, Calla, etc). Of course, all the base values for damage blocked in shields would have to be nerfed, but, essentially all “block recovery” can be turned into “increased damage blocked” (wich mechaniclly is almost exactly what it did in the formula), wouldn’t alter any ongoing build, and would smooth the damage taken formula instead of being so spikey depending on how many attacks are coming in. Also, and im making a huge guess here, no real idea in the matter, It might also help just a tiny little bit with performance, since the engine wouldn’t have to check all the time if the shield is on/off.

Just a thought.

2

If you wanted to remove Block Recovery (e.g., making it 0s across the board) you would need to gut Block Chance, not Damage Blocked. Otherwise, on-block procs (on items and in Devotion) would be astronomically buffed.

Current goal of shield building is to reach 100/100 Recovery/Chance (not always attainable, but you get as close as you can get). Removing Recovery from the equation is one less stat to focus, and therefore makes shield itemization/statting substantially more efficient.

3

all the on-block procs have internal cd, no matter how fast you block, there is no way around that.

edit: also, as i said, i don’t want to make it more “efficient”, but rather more “consistent”. Nerfing the damage blocked of shield to half (or even less if needed) without recovery would guarantee that works when required, even if it’s less efficient than now. For instance, bosses like Alkamos or even Ravager are substantially more affected by block than bosses with ads. In ravager’s case in particular, i think the Flesh version literally can’t hit faster than any half-decent block build’s recovery.

Basicly the change i propose would make the happy-hits fights a bit easier, while the stand-alone bosses with slow hitting kits would get harder.

4

voiding block recovery would basically mean you negate most trash dmg
this would make block builds much much defensively strong in areas like SR and Crucible - even if you lowered the blocked dmg amount, since you’d need to lower it to such degree it would be trivial reduction on boss attacks

5

then again, if mobs are killing you in SR, you stand no chance vs bosses, at wich point any amount of block is trivial. Armor and the multitude of absorbing shields we have are already negating trash damage. As i said, block having an uncontrolable CD means you have no saying in what to block and what not, wich makes it extremely inconsistent in some particular bosses fights were is needed the most. Getting block is already a HEFTY investment in skills, items, and devotions. Making it sort of unpredictable feels like a kick in the nuts for the sake of it.

Edit: an important note: Block is the very first line of defense once you get hit. This is relevant once you realize that armor can achieve similar numbers than block, but AFTER resistances. As i said, in it’s current state, if you are dying to mobs in SR, then your block will not help you vs bosses. The difference in damage is too high, and if your block is actually helping you, then your armor is doing the vast majority of the lifting.

6

armor only mitigates (flat) physical dmg; block mitigates all dmg types
i also think you (severely) underestimate the impact block has on trash, or rather teh value of trash mitigation, dangerous boss dmg is easy to avoid; an onslaught of trash dmg can be lethal
^this is why surrounds is usually the most dangerous thing in both cruci and SR, 0 cd block recovery would mean you mitigate a crapton of that dmg suddenly (for free)

7

First, i was comparing with armor simply because physical resistance is the harder to get, wich makes block WAY more relevant. For all other damage types, resistances are SO strong that block is laughable, let alone dots.
Again, as i said, my change would require a nerf to base damage blocked, but simply to keep it in line on the it’s current performance, trash mobs are least affected by this change because they are the more prone to CC, wich makes your argument even more irrelevant. We all have infinite block against stunned enemies, even without shields.

8

yes, because all builds have constant and 100% uptime AoE CC
have you tried actually playing dedicate block builds? and 100% block recovery builds?
again, it sounds like you’re “guessing” rather than estimating based on combat trials
the fact you are repeatedly ignoring surrounds alone seems like you have not considered something significant…

9

no need to make those changes, the shield mechanics are fine

10

i reached SR 90 on warlord, killed Callagadra, Ravager, Mogdrogen and Lorkarr with it.

11

sounds like a perfectly solid argument to not remove block recovery then :+1:

12

have you read what i said? the issue isn’t, and never was the trash mobs, but the bosses. All your arguments are completely pointless because answers nothing i said. Callagadra is basicly inmune to block, while Ravager gets royally screwed by it.

13

oh snap, almost like you are totally missing the point, and several factors there?
it’s already been explained in the thread
and the fact you can’t even discern it from your own calla v ravager comparison is astounding, yet it is a resounding great example of why it shouldn’t be removed, try to figure out it
or heck lets just go back to basics, from the very first reply

14

I will repeat what i already said:
Reducing the base block damage can easily compensate to make it just as efficient as it is now. Having no control over a defense mechanic that requires an inmense amount of resources to make it work is a bad design, especially because you want it to work against enemies that are dangerous, not those who aren’t. Getting the full blow from Callagadra’s claw because a sandstorm hitted you with a roll of newspaper completely nullify the entire mechanic, and i can’t choose one over the other. Bringing trash mobs into the conversation is pointless, because THEY ARE TRASH MOBS, any shield build is already tanky, mobs are no issue, or your entire build is the issue. NOT THE CASE WITH BOSSES.

15

ok, i’ll throw you the bone and illuminate part of your error, since you struggle to get behind several basic concepts still

your suggestion would default make any char equipping a shield way more tanky, without effort, and it would have meaningful impact with how much/frequent incoming dmg chars get
the point is; you wouldn’t need to be a regular tanky shield build, you just got a massive free line of defense, (and no reducing block amount wouldn’t do much because you’d have to reduce it to an absurd degree)

16

You keep saying that. Like you you are not surrendering damage or utility by equiping a shield. You make it sound like if takes just one item to reach 100% block chance AND an actually useful amount of damage blocked… Now who sounds like never played with shields?

17

again, for the 3rd time, you are vastly underestimating the incoming dmg chars get, their impact/severity in surrounds, and making the mistake of focusing solely on 1v1 bosses or celestial dmg output; that’s your misunderstanding

18

Again, for the 3rd time, you are vastly underestimating how tanky characters built for tankyness are, with or without shields. By your logic, only S&B characters would be able to reach high SR. Clearly not the case. So, again, your argument is completely pointless.

19

what basic part of this do you keep missing

^the point is this become irrelevant with your suggestion: you don’t need to be tanky to benefit from shield anymore

it’s that simple
with your suggestion, chars that dont aim for current high tankiness or high shield focus; would get a default line of defense, that would be significant, the way 0 recovery would reduce all incoming dmg from them as a bonus

for the last time, you’re making the giant mistake of looking at this with the biggest tunnel-vision goggles ever and with 1 focus of your/high tank chars vs bosses and celestials
with absolutely 0 consideration for chars/builds that exist but isnt’ that, but would massively benefit “aside from the tanky chars also benefitting like you wanted”
and the reason for that is you’re vastly underestimating the impact non celestial dmg has on normal chars/builds/non shield defensive builds

1 Like
20

Once again, NERF THE FREAKING BASE DAMAGE BLOCKED. How hard is that to understand? And yes, I WANT T TO BE AN ACTUAL LINE OF DEFENSE. Right now, is completely random, wich is awful given how insanely costly it is to build for it.

But i’ll entretain your though, lets do some math here:

  1. Block Right now.
    lets say 100% block chance and 4k dmg blocked, with 0.33s of recovery (wich btw is SUPER HIGH). 33% phys res and 3k of armor and 20k of life and 1k of regen. Pretty standard for almost any shield build. 80% res on everything else.

Case A: a mob hit for 2000 (strong mob wtb, an asociate of Riggs in SR 50, lvl 112 has that base damage) twice in a row. First hit gets completely negated, by block, and second hit pass through and deals… 0 dmg, because armor covered anywas, even without considering res. Block did zero diference
Case B: same mob hits the same damage twice, but elemental. First block negates it all, second hit pass through and deals 400 dmg.
you would need around 5 of those combined just match the health regen, and this doesn’t take into account killing mobs, leeching, CC, or anything else. 5 straight hits from STRONG mobs to deal effectively NO DAMAGE. Meaning that the shield only made a difference in the 6th hit, becase the other 5 were just negated by mere hp regen, wich all tanky characters have, regardless of shield.

Case C: Boss hitting for 10k. 4k blocked, 4kish beyond resitance, and 1k after armor.
Unless, there is a mob present. Suddenly the boss is hitting for 3300 of physical. 2300 above the hp regen, HUGE spike of damage simply because a mob hitted first.
Case D: Same boss but elemental? 1200 after res. With a mob hitting first? 2000.

As you can see, the problem never was the trash mobs, any tanky build can, as the word suggest, TANK them, because their built-in layers already compensate their incoming damage. Either via damage absortion (armor, resis, fields) or overhealing (leech or regen). But with big hits, the calculation gets suuuuuper swingy simply because something else hits first.

  1. Block as i intend.
    100% block chance and 1.5k dmg blocked (about 60% less damage? the nerf i suggested), no recovery. 33% phys res and 3k of armor and 20k of life and 1k of regen.

Case A: Same mob, physical? The EXACT SAME RESULT.
Case B: Elemental? first change, the final damage would be 100, wich woul require about 10 of those hits to equate the HP regen.
Case C: Physical boss, around 1600 of damage taken. REGARDLESS OF THE MOB PRESENCE.
Case D: Elemental boss… 1700… REGARDLESS OF THE MOB PRESENCE.

As you can see, my change wouldn’t dramatically affect the underline functioning of block in most scenarios, but would make it far more CONSISTENT. Bosses would hit harder against it, but allways the same, and mobs would hit about the same as they are doing now. Also, big point here: once you reach higher SR, all these calculations are out the window. at lvl 90 The same mob i used as an example can be hitting for 10k without breaing a sweat. in wich case the block values (both in damage or recovery, regardless of system) have to go super high, beyond what is reasonably achievable, specially if you want to actually kill something.
As it is right now, you are too worried about a non-problem, because tanky shieldless builds can already ignore what you think my change would allow to ignore, but as it is right now, the behavior of block under pressure changes dramatically without control from the player.

In other words, your objection is pointless, and my suggestion changes nothing about it, because is already an issue as it is. And if you think im wrong, try to build a non-tanky 100% block chance build :rofl: . All the support for shields comes from the two tankiest masteries. In fact, you can switch very little in any shield build, and turn it into 2h without much trouble, and will still retain tankyness, given the skills those masteries provide.

As i said, the only thing i want to change, is the consistency, not the tankyness, nor “efficiency”.