Relic feedback thread

[Chthon]

LOL

I would admit that my knowledge could be outdated about this relic but do you not agree that it’s more or less fine (ADG does intend to run some tests)

Oblivion - I think you’re correct that it could be a little further down on my list, but I find it’s edged out. In my notes for it I didn’t mean to apply it should get all of my suggestions at once. I think faction dmg to humans and a bit of a dmg bump would be sufficient, it doesn’t need the DA. I just like me some DA.

Honestly when it comes to this relic I feel like I always somehow hit a brick wall… The only thing with Oblivion I can suggest it is to either change it’s granted skill into some spammable skill with a decent output and sustain giving some people interested in making whacky builds to try it out. I don’t think the current skill template is good enough for this so we might need to change the template as well.
Either this or we can just delete the relic for good:rolleyes:

Malediction - You’re partially right, but there may also be some bias toward meditation because Oathkeeper pairs so well with poison builds, so the “better acid/poison” builds often end up with OK? The vitality factors in. Maybe it’s best to abandon suggestions and let Z ponder over the Malediction v Meditation problem.

So then I’d say turning Malediction into a Decay\Vitality relic and changing Meditation into a pure Acid\Poison relic. I don’t think this would hurt too many builds.
I just want one dedicated Decay support relic.

Nemesis - If the pet had to get an RR aura I rather it be -5% cold 8% pierce, or even just -8% pierce. I think cold has enough going for it these days.

Agreed completely. I just think the RR would give more reason for builds to pick this relic.

Yugol’s hunger - It’d be great if you did test it out more.

[spoiler]I actually changed my mind about it, not due to laziness but because I was looking at the upcoming EoR\SS Set and noticed that it’s obvious there’s no way this relic can compete with that.

Considering this is a level 90 relic I feel like this should give us more than just a crappier version of an existing well supported skill. Just like how Scourge gives us a different skill all-together I feel like this relic should do the same.

As of right now all i can say is changing the Granted Skill to a Black AAR like beam would be better imo. The below is what I propose. To add to the uniqueness I want it to spawn projectiles like Fire Strike upon connecting with the enemy

Yugol’s Hunger

“A voracity unmatched in all creation.”

16 Cold Damage
16 Acid Damage
6% of Attack Damage converted to Health
+135% Cold Damage
+135% Acid Damage
+135% Frostburn Damage
+135% Poison Damage
+15% Energy
-10% Skill Energy Cost
+10% Casting Speed

Yugol’s Hunger (Granted by Item)

Focus your fury into a black beam of voracious power that consumes the lifeblood of all near you for as long as you channel the effect. This is a channeled skill and must be held down to maintain. At 100% Cast Speed, Yugol’s Hunger deals damage and drains Energy every 0.3s. The beam spouts additional charges to upon connecting with the enemy.

316.7 Energy Cost per Second
0.3 Second Skill Recharge
15% Weapon Damage
156-200 Acid Damage
156-200 Cold Damage
350 Poison Damage over 2 Seconds
350 Frostburn Damage over 2 Seconds
+50% Crit Damage
8% of Attack Damage converted to Health

I know my suggestion is extra work but imo it adds more incentive for people to use this relic mostly because unique granted skills always attract attention of folks. We saw that with the AoM component skills. There quite a bit of builds posted around those skills. A black AAR would be badass imo.

That being said I will run some tests. Need some time though cause I need to download GD stash and spend some time with GT before I can settle on something. I won’t test it for Acid EoR cause it’s pointless, the upcoming set wins hands down however I will run something for Cold EoR or some other damage type.[/spoiler]

Ulzuin’s Pyroclasm - Last I checked it was “fine enough” but I haven’t done enough with it. Demo relics also have a bit of the “overlap” issue.

Ah, well I brought it up because it looked a little dated to me when compared to the newer stuff.

Belgothian’s Carnage - I was actually hyper conflicted about whether to bring this one up on the list at all because balancing CDR stuff scares me. What if you made the cooldown reduction 1.5s instead of 1s. What if you instead lowered the proc cooldown from 4.5s to 4s? This makes me nervous. Superfluff could probably comment more on it than I but last time I used it, it felt “fun” which was enough for me I guess. Unsure how it stacks up in the end-game.

Chances are some defensive addition to its stats could also do the trick if Z worries the proc is too dangerous to buff. Of course all this assuming it needs buffing at all.

[spoiler]
I share your opinion on this, I too felt apprehensive of bringing it up due to the nature of the proc. But I had this weird feeling that the relic overall felt weaker when I saw some of the new stuff added.

So yeah, let’s wait for Fluff to chip in on this one.

As for defensive buffs to the relic, I can see why Z would want to go down that route considering the history of the relic with Pierce Blademasters at one point but I think we are way past that now. The meta has shifted, I think your suggestions to adjust the values on the proc might do the trick w/o breaking anything.[/spoiler]

[someone]

Annihilation
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/1507
Very simple, the ability’s mana cost is too high and the dmg radius is too low. It’s on a 6.5s cooldown so there’s little reason to worry about buffing the radius. Some Demolition builds already blow wide areas up with more damage being put out than this thing.

Superfluff puts it well below, “it tries both melee and caster and is great at neither.”

Meteor from this thing should become passive proc. Overall it should turned into caster relic maybe with -% skills energy cost since classes with Demolitionist tend to be very energy-consuming.

[Chthon]

Looks like I missed some one the list -

1. Oleron’s Wrath

Suggestion -

• Add 50 DA
• Bump the Bleeding Damage and Duration to 98% Bleeding Damage with 50% Increase Duration
• Reduce the skill CD to 1 second and increase the activation to 15%
• Reduce the %Physical Damage to 78% Physical Damage.
• Add 98% Piercing Damage, this in particular makes it useful for Pierce\Bleed hybrid style which means it would be more useful than just being place holder for Massacre and Doom

2. Bane-

[spoiler]I concur with the fact that it would be hard for this to compete ith Ignaffar Relic. Stat-wise Vengeance beats it hands down.

So yes Aether and Chaos Support would be nice. We have Chaos and Aether Inquisitor builds I think it’d be great if this relic actually supports them. Also a new Inquisitor Aether\Chaos Relic opens up more build possibilities.

Bane

“Ruin upon your foes.”

10 Chaos Damage
10 Aether Damage
+105% Chaos Damage
+105% Aether Damage
+35 Offensive Ability
+2 Energy Regenerated per second
+10% Energy
+5% Casting Speed
+1 to all skills in Inquisitor

Granted Skills

Entropic Bane (33% Chance on Critical Attack)

Unleash a bolt of pure entropic energies to knock back any advancing foes.
1 Second Skill Recharge
100% Chance to pass through Enemies
1 Meter Radius
190 Chaos Damage
190 Aether Damage
Knockdown target for 1 Second
[/spoiler]

3. Plunderer’s Talisman

Suggestions -

• Increase the health bonus by 50 more health.
• Add 10% Health
• Increase flat damage bonus to 15-25 Elemental Damage
• Replace Fire and Cold support with full on 50% Elemental Damage. Lightning gunners are unlikely to go for this relic but it’d be a nice little bonus for the ones that do.
• Increase % Total Damage to 75% All Damage.
• Change the Granted Skill’s damage to Elemental Damage instead of splitting it to Fire and Cold.
• Add % “x” resistance or %DA.

[Sobertooth]

In general:
Most of the relics giving no + skills are a very hard sell.
A lot of the granted active skills are barely worth using, if even that considering the time used to cast them is not used to leech or kite depending on the build…
A few of the AoM and FG relics make base game ones look obsolete even if they are still good.

Korvaak:
I don’t even have the room to slot the skill on my bar since the new movement skills from FG… Base stats from the relic are great, but the skill feels irrelevant to me. I’d really like to see the skill considerably weakened and changed to a proc, a general WPS or even a 0 cd skill. Heck, even reverted to the charge from pre-FG I’d remove a potion to make room for it, can never have too many movement skills…

Melee Talisman:
Direwolf Crest exists and has stats good enough to be considered even on some non-DW stuff… Just why?

Ignaffar:
wth?! This has stats and a proc good enough to make most of the no +skill relics look like rubbish, but also gives +1 to arguably one the most useful masteries…

[MortalKombat]

I would admit that my knowledge could be outdated about this relic but do you not agree that it’s more or less fine (ADG does intend to run some tests)

You made a typo, man! You wrote “Uroboruuk’s Raping” instead of “Uroboruuk’s Reaping” and it made me laugh :).

[Strannik]

+1, almost all mentioned relics needs some love.

[Strannik]

ADG please stop making these threads I am tempted to abandon the real world in favor of replaying the game just to test out stuff :rolleyes:

Sounds like a good plan!

[Gaildor]

Oleron’s Wrath

I always find it’s odd this relic doesn’t offer any attack speed but Doom does.

BTW, I’m so fond of its description ““Blood… agony… death. Will you deny the drums of war?””
[COLOR=“DeepSkyBlue”]my thought highlighted with DeepSkyBlue

10-16 Physical Damage
+98% Physical Damage
+78% Bleeding Damage with +30% Increased Duration
+50 Offensive Ability
+8~12% Attack Speed
Adding either +n Armor, +n% Physical Res, or +n% Maximum Bleeding/Pierce Res
+1 to all skills in Soldier
Granted Skills
Oleron’s Wrath (10% Chance on Attack)
2 Second Skill Recharge - >> 1.5~1.8 Second Skill Recharge
3 Meter Target Area
20% Weapon Damage - >> untouch or increase up to 30%
224-317 Physical Damage
546 Bleeding Damage over 3 Seconds
+n% Crit Damage

All these adjustments fit the name of war god himself.
[/COLOR]

Vengeance

[spoiler]
Recently I try a Nadaan’s Reach pierce infiltrator.
At first I chose Vengeance for extra pierce damage, several runs in Crucible Nidalla’s Outbreak outperformed it with ease.

+n~n pierce／cold damage
+85% Pierce Damage
+85% Cold Damage
+12% Damage to Undead
+350 Health
+n% Offensive Ability
+4% Defensive Ability
+n% Total Speed (or +n% casting／attack speed)
25% Vitality Resistance
+1 to all skills in Inquisitor
Granted Skills
Chilling Vengeance (20% Chance when Hit by Melee Attacks) ->> (n% Chance on Attack)
2 Second Skill Recharge
5 Meter Target Area
285 Piercing Damage
285 Cold Damage
35% Slower Enemy Attack for 2 Seconds (Collide with other skills that have same effect, should replace something better)

off topic:
+1.5 meter target area to RoS is kind of a waste on Nadaan’s Reach.
-n Second Skill Recharge to RoS sounds like a better choice.[/spoiler]

see color message above

[Avyctes]

Annihilation needs

1. Trauma bonus
2. A resistance

At the very least. I actually made this relic once, it’s been in my stash every since, no build has used it. And then K’s Deception came out and it became useless forever. Shame, the meteor could be nice…

[Theuberelite]

The one thing that made me really start liking Primal Instinct is my discovery that you could control all pets in the top left user interface without controlling the Primal Instinct bugs by pressing the Select All Pets key before clicking somewhere.

Perhaps an option that, as a toggle, allows Pet Attack to function as if you hit the Select All Pets key before using Pet Attack would be good. Maybe a key that overrides it too?

To clarify on this, lemme quote this from my thread:

Moving pets without moving primal instinct / bysmiel’s command pets: If you bind a key to select all pets and press that, the next left/right click you do will only send all pets that you see in the top left view to the location you clicked. This means that the bysmiel pet and the swarmlings will continue doing what they are doing, which generally results in better aoe – mostly because of the swarmlings, as they are very slow. This is unfortunately quite hard to get used to, and I wouldn’t recommend trying too hard to use it, but it’s interesting nonetheless.

[jinsaotomex4]

All I want is a relic with “-1 Second to All Currently Active Skill Cooldowns” for 2 Handers :eek:

[mad_lee]

Yugol

I have tested it on a Witch Hunter. Tried different setups: full Deathguard + second Deathguard dagger, full Deathguard + Venomblade stick, full Venomblade. I was super disappointed. No damage and very low surivivability. Whole relic is dedicated to this one build enabling skill, and skill is below mediocre. It just sucks so bad. I couldn’t finish Crucible like 10 times out of 10, spent 2 hours trying everything, and even if I did finish 150-170 (died few times on wave 170) it would’ve been ~9 minutes completion time, which is a joke, given that I have used full Venomblade that with a different skill layout would’ve destroyed it in 6 minutes.

[Nery]

Yugol

I have tested it on a Witch Hunter. Tried different setups: full Deathguard + second Deathguard dagger, full Deathguard + Venomblade stick, full Venomblade. I was super disappointed. No damage and very low surivivability. Whole relic is dedicated to this one build enabling skill, and skill is below mediocre. It just sucks so bad. I couldn’t finish Crucible like 10 times out of 10, spent 2 hours trying everything, and even if I did finish 150-170 (died few times on wave 170) it would’ve been ~9 minutes completion time, which is a joke, given that I have used full Venomblade that with a different skill layout would’ve destroyed it in 6 minutes.

I wanted to reborn my WH and test it.With Yugol I tried twice.Second time I reached 170,look at the timer and was 9.30 and died against Kuba+Reaper.

Idk why was nerfed.I used parts of Venomblade and acid pants with crafted boots,Judicator rings.

[Chthon]

Dude, the upcoming SS Set has Acid EoR support so I guess let’s just convert it into a black AAR.

Yugol’s Hunger (Granted by Item)

Focus your fury into a black beam of voracious power that consumes the lifeblood of all near you for as long as you channel the effect. This is a channeled skill and must be held down to maintain. At 100% Cast Speed, Yugol’s Hunger deals damage and drains Energy every 0.3s. The beam spouts additional charges to upon connecting with the enemy.

316.7 Energy Cost per Second
0.3 Second Skill Recharge
15% Weapon Damage
156-200 Acid Damage
156-200 Cold Damage
350 Poison Damage over 2 Seconds
350 Frostburn Damage over 2 Seconds
+50% Crit Damage
8% of Attack Damage converted to Health

[mad_lee]

+1 to Chton’s idea. Current skill from Yugol is awful.

[adoomgod]

Some items we touched on got some changes in the last patch.

We must work together as a community to test the changes below that touched items we mentioned in this thread, so that we can CROSS SOME OFF OUR LIST IF THEY ARE NOW SUFFICIENT.

Please remember the goal isn’t to make everything best in slot in some build. While we want to strive for item slot diversity, the purpose of this thread is to accept when an item is just baseline good. If we can make it competitive WITHOUT displacing something else, that’s fantastic, but the goal is just to make sure the items are good enough to wear without feeling stupid for doing so. At least that’s my take.

* Relic - Annihilation: added 4% Attack Speed, reduced Cooldown and Energy Cost on the granted skill
* Relic - Bane: added 5% Attack Speed, increased Offensive Ability to 55
* Relic - Eye of the Storm: added 8% Cast Speed
* Relic - Malediction: added 5% Attack Speed, increased % Poison Duration to 80% and increased Poison Retaliation on the granted skill
* Relic - Necrosis: added 5% Attack Speed
* Relic - Oblivion: added 6% Cast Speed
* Relic - Primal Instinct: increased Health Regen to 35
* Relic - Salvation: increased Health Regen to 44 and % Activation Chance on the skill proc to 20%

Given the above, I think the following are some decent contenders for “now good enough to be removed from this thread” :
Annihilation
Malediction

Let me know if you think any of the buffs above sufficiently warrants them being taken off the list. And please do chime in on items still on the list that you find are still poor. Or anything I missed.

[mad_lee]

Annihilation is still a weird ass relic with melee stats but with a super expensive spell proc that no melee would use. Compare its stats to Korvaak’s or to Ignaffar’s and it’s not hard to figure out what kind of choice auto-attacking Purifiers will make (casters won’t even touch Annihilation).

Necrosis has VITALITY stats but its proc gives RR to ANYTHING BUT VITALITY. Still a joke of a relic.

Obvlivion - looks like a poor man’s Agrivix.

[Maya]

Primal is a very good relic, in some situations the best offensive pet shaman relic.

I have to disagree here. When compared to Mog’s Ardor, Bysmiel’s and even Dirge, PI seems rather lackluster even in Pet Shaman builds imo.

It is not just movement speed they require, they also die too fast to AoE and while I do see that they are supposed to be quantity over quality, atleast for me it would take more than movespeed to consider them BiS in any pet build.

[Heapheaus]

Given the above, I think the following are some decent contenders for “now good enough to be removed from this thread” :
Annihilation
Malediction

Malediction should have never been in this thread to begin with, and it didn’t need the buff IMO. Malediction preforms very very well on Acid Witch Hunter.(SS or Bero, No not dunefiend)

Edit: Primal Instinct is actually really OP in certain circumstances; if the insects don’t die, they’re brokenly op. If they do die they’re worthless. They currently die so they’re worthless. Fix: Less insects, bigger insects. “balance”

[Chthon]

While I appreciate Crate for implementing these changes but I don’t think any of them solved the problem at hand.

1. Annhilation - I’d still pick Ulzuin’s Pyroclasm over it. 4% Attack Speed feels like too low. I think 7% is good number to make it somewhat decent for certain builds.
   Additionally energy cost reduction should be added to help it differentiate from other demo relics and to help any energy starved demo builds or help anyone wishing to make a cast heavy demo.
   Now that I think about it, removing the speed component entirely and giving it shit load of energy bonuses would also help give this relic a unique identity and would make it attractive for some demo builds.

2. Bane - I have zero reason to pick it over Ignaffar or even over Vengeance for that matter (them sweet ass DA). I have already suggested that this should be re-designed into a chaos-aether relic to give it a unique identity.
   We have Aether Ignaffar now I assume, even if we don’t it’s possible to make one (at least it was back in AoM). While that build was good it wasn’t close to OP.
   If not aether then I think even Vitality would help. The point is that if they decide to move away from the Elemental theme on this relic they would certainly be contributing to build diversity.

3. Malediction - The issue still exists that it is too similar to the OK relic. I still think it should be turned into a pure Vitality\Decay Relic and the OK’s Vitality\Decay components should be removed completely. The current changes do not address the core problem with the relic.
   For the record, this relic has always been good with damage output (even after OK relic addition) so buffing it further was rather weird to me personally. Just simply changing it up to give it a unique identity would’ve helped things imo.

4. Necrosis - I don’t see how AS would be helpful. Lee already pointed out the obvious in a previous post. It’s till a crap relic.

5. Oblivion - @mad_lee calls it a budget Agrivix. I honestly think he’s being too generous here by giving it a such a high honor. This relic is akin to Agrivix’s dump picked up with a rusted shovel.
   I honestly remain clueless as to how this relic can be improved, it’s a true mystery. For now I’d much rather bang my head for the other relics than this.

6. Primal Instinct - No clue, someone like @Maya Maya or TPOM might be able to comment here.

7. Salvation - I am not sure how these changes play out in practice. Unlike the previous relics I lack playtime this one so can’t comment. @adoomgod , your thoughts? Do you feel like the changes make it more attractive

Also, Yugol’s Hunger remains un-addressed. I guess we need to post some stuff to convince Crate to turn it from a budget EoR to a Black Beam of Destruction

Oh btw, the EoTS Cast Speed addition is pretty neat so kudos for that.