Retaliation, Bloody pox + Fevered rage Tank

I love tank characters, I hate using consumable, I hate dying :slight_smile:

So, I tried a lot of template, from full DSP with ‘Dying a lot’ mastery… to full tank, unable to kill any boss with LL or high regen (like the mad queen)

My best character by now is a Trickster, 2H frost damage and high life regen.

I tried the Hetzer, the Warden tank by Squib, it’s really safe, but killing ranged/caster enemies is a plague and if it’s a boss, it’s very long, and we need a second set with damage reflect.

So, I tried something else.

A retaliation tank is great to deal damage, but only if enemies hit you, and enemies don’t hit often or miss a lot with high DA, sooo, i tried Bloody Pox and Fevered rage, +150% total speed is great, they hit more often and come faster to me to take kicks. And with a tanking build, it help to mitigate the +50% OA the rage gave them.

The other good thing is that caster and archers tend to be less resistant to bleeding, or maybe it’s just because they have low health.
So this template is good for caster because of ranged bleed’s spells and good for melee with high retaliation damage.

The build :

It’s a Conjurer, Occultist+Shaman

Occultist, obviously for Bloody Pox
Shaman, for tanking and retaliation

I have 2 versions for the devotions
First one, with better tanking (dryad & scales of ulcama)

Second, with better Bleed damage

It’s hard to choose, because getting the big bleed damage cost a lot of points and remove a lot of funny tanking skills or retaliation.
But the core constellations are the same -> going to Messenger of war and Targo the builder.

I’m only at the beginning, L40, but I can see the potential. It’s very funny to see trash mobs going crazy and running on my shield to die.

Sometime it’s scary too when dead enemies continued to propagate the plague to an unwanted rare monster.

For leveling, going with Curse of frailty and devouring swarm is just too easy for act 1, when we achieve to get mogdrogen’s pact line and wendigo totem, we can start using bloody pox and Fevered rage.

Even at 40, my main DPS source is the Curse of Frailty, with Falcon swoop on it, and devouring swarm. I use bloody pox only on distant enemies or easy melee to get them down faster.

Hitting 40, I start to use the Perdition Set for a big retaliation up.

For other stuff, I use +%bleed or +retaliation, depending what I find, and if possible with on hit or on attack proc, to giving more DPS (my main attack suck)
Don’t forget some + Mana regen item, because the spells cost a lot for a tank character.

I don’t spend time to find what BIS items will be, but I’ll check that when (if) hitting Elite or Ultimate.
But mostly +life, +retaliation, +bleed damage, +resists.

If you have advice for the devotions, I’ll be grateful, because it’s a pain to get tanking+bleeding+retaliation :stuck_out_tongue:

PS: Sorry if my English is bad, it’s not my native language :wink:

Vileblood mantle has some bleed retaliation and the debuff so it’s bis I think. For devotions, other than theusual you should get boar. It’s % change to retaliate but it’s pretty brutal. Combine with Golemborn greaves. It’s internal trauma but end game it’s over 20K dot retaliation combined with COF you can get it to 30K or so.

This is all that comes to my mind for now

I tried something similar (using Bloody Pox/Fevered Rage to speed up a retaliation build) on a Witchblade and found it to be extremely dangerous, big mob packs often burst me down faster than they died/I could pot/etc.

Doing it as a Conjurer is not something I considered mostly because I figured you’d really need the shield-buffing skills from Soldier to make the build ‘work’.

Is the healing from Blood of Dreeg/Wendigo Totem/etc really enough to make this build ‘safe’ from being burst down?

Why don’t you remove Black Death - confuse is messy with retaliation builds, bleed increase is insignificant and affects BP only. Maxed AotG looks like better.

This build utilizes the same mechanics and done Glad crusible with extra spawn.

This build does not invest in Bloody Pox - it only uses its transmuter which is kind of odd for me.

The following build is completed - character is level 85 fully geared. I haven`t uploaded a video yet but tested the build against Fabius. You can tank him for sure, just do not cast Bloody Pox on him. Other bosses are a joke even enraged by Fevered Rage.

That was something I question myself. I’ll need to see how high the bleed damage on BP go with +%Bleed at high level. It’s sure that confuse is not good for retaliation, but in theory this build is half bleeding damage :slight_smile:

But it can save points for sure.

I tried to put some points in shieldmaiden devotion, for better blocks, but it hurt retaliation or bleed constellations. So I don’t know yet.

The big advantage of Shaman is mogdrogen buff line for more life/regens, the primal bond 15% damage absorb and the Wendigo totem, so I assume it help more to mitigate damages than just shield block.

I took a look at your devotions. The first variant seems better. The second one is bad, as unknown soldier is a waste in this case. If you respec it and take points out of tortoise or ulo, you may work around howl of mogdrogen, which looks better for your build.

IMO if you gonna work mostly on bleed damage and BP, you’d better drop fevered rage. It belongs to dedicated tanks, which utilize its advantages through high shield support and also reflect damage, along with the retaliation. Your build is a hybrid semi-tank.

I suspect you’d get perma rekt at high difficulties with fevered rage active, as some bosses/heroes/mobs will hit you ridiculously hard and you got nothing to counter it.

In fact, Howl and soldier are the only 2 constellation with 2x80% bleed damage.
I just took soldier because I’m near in points, but Howl cost a lot of green points and green don’t have a lot of tank stuff.

My Aim is using Fevered Rage, because it accelerate the retaliation.
But as you said because I’m not “soldier” I miss a lot of tanking, so I tried to focus on tanking constellations like Ulo and Tortoise.
The other good way to defense, is a good offense too :slight_smile: so I suppose that getting more bleed damage accelerate fights and then allow me to tank a bit less.
And a full retaliation build is weak againts caster/archers, bleeding seems to counter that a bit.

Rest the problem of single powerfull enemies, that’s right :), but using bloody pox is not mandatory, retaliation and other bleed sources (like falcon swoop) can do the job, but slower.

One important question is how the rage’s OA bonus is applied.
Huntress’s Rend : -125 OA
Bloody pox’s Wasting : -180 OA
If the 50% bonus is applied first it’s different if applied after.
if an enemy got 1000OA we can get :
(1000-305)1.5 = 1042.5 OA
1.5 - 305 = 1195 OA
It’s not the same, but it’s not so different than without the rage buff.
(and of course with 2000 OA, it’s worst :slight_smile: )

For reference Hetzer tank got 2500 DA, and getting more than 1500 is relatively easy for a tank.
I’m not sure how much OA HL enemies got, but I assume that it’s manageable :slight_smile:

As I said, this build is mostly for fun, I try to get this Toon L75 and finish Elite.
If I can manage to get a viable combination to beat ultimate, that will be awesome :slight_smile:

Anyway, thanks for your advices :slight_smile: It’s always usefull.

If it’s not about min-maxing, but about content you are able to defeat in yellow gear with whatever build, what’s the point.
Whatever you do, it’ll work. Build is fine as is.

Almost all builds I saw focus on 1 damage element and some time 2 if it’s easy to get it.

With the Rage, I saw a good way to combine tanking and bleed casting.
I find a similar build, with Demolitionist, using Fire damage as retaliation (with Vindictive flame)

I’m lacking of experience of Ultimade mode, my bigger character is 75 still in act 1, so I don’t really know what to realy focus between offense and defense, and Items cal change a lot of things.

My 75 could’nt kill mad queen in Elite, until I get a new 75 blue weapon, then that was an easy kill facetanking her. So I assume it’s difficult to judge some templates without right stuff…

Hi there :slight_smile:

I little update, I’ll modify the main post when I have some time to do something nice.
After some errand with other characters, I came back on this toon.

I’m 72 now, finished Elite without much difficulty.

  • It’s one of my very rare character who killed the mad queen in normal very easily, the elite version hit too hard for my L40 stuff, but I’ll be back :wink:

I tried the Crucible and It’s quite good until wave 100. I suppose my L40 set is not tanky enough for the nemesis (and my 65% lightning resist is not enough for his dot ) (in fact I killed im, but he killed me too so I didn’t validate the wave)
But the 90’s are quite simple, even with the 3 boss at round 99.
The bleed damage and bleed debuffs are very good for the casters

The template is quite the same, with some small modifications

I still not put point in Black death for the moment, it will depend if Bleeding damage worth being boosted or if retaliation is better in ultimate. More control = less damage but less retaliation too.
Grasping vines stop enemies and it’s not bad, it avoid too much enemies at the same time, my shield block is not a Warden’s one.

The great skills I miss at start :
Wasting, it’s the skill needed to avoid too much critics, it don’t completely compensate the 25% OE from Fevered Rage on boss, but for normal/elite mobs, it’s ok.
Maxing it BEFORE taking Fevered Rage is a life saving move :slight_smile:

Skills & Devotion

  • Devouring Swarm with Shield Wall is very good (heal, debuff, protection)
  • Curse of Frailty with Falcon swoop (debuff and aoe bleed damage)
  • Wendigo Totem (heal, bleed boost)
  • Blood of dreeg (heal retaliation damage, resists)
  • Grasping vines with Driad’s blessing (for additional heal)

Giant blood, Turtle shell and Messenger of War on maintained skills for heal/protection/retaliation

For the items:

I’m still with my old Perdition Set, I need some last parts for the Empowered one.
I used some L60 items I found, either bleed or retaliation, but it’s not optimal yet.
Empowered Gorefeast is a good weapon for the build, bleed and +1 shaman and with a Blessed Whetstone on it, it’s quite great for more bleeding and a melee skill
Boneweave leggings is quite interesting for boosting vitality and healing from totem and swarm.
Thorn-Girdle-of-the-Misty-Glade is funny too, the wildvines are interesting for damage and control, avoiding too many enemies at the same time, and bleed boost.
I’m using Venomspine Greaves just for the retaliation, but it’s really not for this template :slight_smile:
Empowered Locust Gem is made for this template
My Rings and medals are Greens, chosen for the resistances, and not optimized yet.

Rampage for the relic, I’ll check something better later depending if I’m lacking retaliation, tanking or bleeding damage.

  • The good :
    Killing speed is really better than simple retaliation builds, some boss continue to kill themself really fast, some are longer, but bleed damage is great for casters.
    It’s fun to speed up enemies, and show them fly away as fast as they come near :slight_smile:
    It’s more interactive than full retaliation build, more spell to micromanage and the Bloody pox gamble is funny :slight_smile:

  • You can do some kind of pvp with friends :stuck_out_tongue: everyone is not Feverer Rage proof :slight_smile:

  • The Bad :
    You need to learn when launching the Bloody pox, it can kill yourself really fast with powerfull enemies.
    It’s in fact quite complicated to stuff, need bleed damage plus retaliation on stuff (and vitality dam is usefull too) And the Perdition set is so good that it’s hard to replace (it’s all or nothing)
    Good Resist are hard to get with Blue sets, even empowered.

I died a couple of time (10 exactly) but mostly because I wanted to accelerate fights with Bloody pox and sometime… that’s not a good idea.
So it can be complicated for Hardcore characters :slight_smile: