I just want to add that I didn’t have any devotions points spent in my tests.
It’s important because I’ve already been burnt by this in the past - flat damage in Devos used to give me wrong test results.
All right folks! What I’ve got from this discussion is that you should never use the skill’s transmuters because they break the logic in the game.
But what if I use extra skill like Presence of Virtue along with the Righteous Fervor with transmuter skill. Transmuter converts Internal Trauma to Poison but does it apply to effects from Presence of Virtue where their is a chance to have 5 seconds Internal Trauma damage?
Yes they do break the logic sometimes. You probably know already that damage can’t be converted twice.
Storm Totem transmuter converted its damage to Vitality. Can it be converted further, from Vitality to something else?
What about Guardians? Can converted Guardians (aka Scions) be converted further?
1. No, but it used to work in the past.
2. Yes so it breaks no double conversion rule in a way.
It’s weird that flat Fire prefix on a Vitality weapon could benefit you a bit more than flat Vitality prefix on some Righteous Fervor Vitality build, although the difference would be small on higher levels and prefixes don’t have the same absolute values.
Retribution is a buff, like consecration, it doesn’t boost RF directly, ex like Static Strike %fire dmg in Fire Strike would boost pre-conversion
that’s why retribution doesn’t boost RF when using conversion, because the %dmg is added to sheet/global not RF - iirc from my own conversion testing
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Exactly that. People don’t get confused when %cold and vitality from Soul Harvest don’t apply to, say, physical damage if player has 100% conversion for both. Retribution and base RF skill are no different to that.
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Did you see the example I gave to RektByProtoss where Retribution boosts Fire damage preconversion with Transmuter?
sry i skimmed through the post, but i’ve just confirmed it ingame, the %dmg is added to sheet/global
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The screenshots again because you don’t seem to bother reading everything 
How do you and @XandeRoot (and RektByProtoss) explain that:
It shows Retribution doesn’t simply work as a buff. It’s more complicated.
Yes, yes! I confirm that no matter if you use Transmuter or not with RF but it gives the bonuses to Burn and Physical damage anyway and the same applies to Internal Trauma with Retribution Skill modifier. But it goes agains the official game’s guide where they say that skill modifiers should only apply to that skill.
I want to write to developers and ask them to fix the Righteous Fervor % damage bonuses to have something similar to Aegis of Menhir where after you invest in a skill’s transmuter then the bonuses and their description changes accordingly. I think that Dreeg’s Reproach should change bonuses to Physical and Burn to Acid and Vitality Decay and Retribution’s Internal Trauma damage should be changed to Poison % damage bonus.
Are you agree that it will be fair folks?
no, because buffs aren’t part of that and are considered separate, there is no skill that has a buff part of the line where the buff gets converted with transmuter
like Xanderoot mentioned, Soul harvest doesn’t make people confused, Deadly Momentum on Cadence doesn’t either
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Maybe it works the both ways? It amplifies converted damage directly AND gives global % fire/trauma? Fuck if I know.
Oh yeah, by the way, I know you said you had no devotions, but just to make sure: you don’t have any fire retal on this character right?
It might be the case. I didn’t test actually using it too much. Maybe it’s even double dipping without the transmuter?
I’ll check that. I don’t now Retal works / how it displays.
[edit] No, nothing. Only this weapon from the screenshot is on this character. Otherwise it’s blank.
ye i get the same results as you show there
thinking either it’s a case of being both a skill buff and a global buff, “somehow” ? 
tool tip error ? (since i don’t use GI i can’t separate the acid/poison dmg from vitality when hitting dummy), tho i kinda don’t think so
makes you wonder if it’s an intentional effect of double dipping when stacking flat fire/trauma dmg using the transmuter 
edit okay… it doesn’t just stop at RF, nor at Retribution
apparently main node/RF itself applies “global buff”, and both RF%dmg and Retribution %dmg actually applies globally, (despite using transmuter, to other skills), even tho RF is getting the %dmg converted for itself too 
is RF the new Cadence? @_@
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Holy shit RF is really messed up 
I checked 2nd page of char sheet and it made the global %physical/burn/IT/fire go up and NOT the acid/vit/poison/vit decay one even while using the transmuter, so I assumed it’s not getting converted. I forgot to hover the skill’s dmg break down on 2nd page. 
Edit: I checked the fire dmg on my Vire’s Might while having transmuted RF buff up and fire/phys dmg on VM increased. It’s like it increases global fire/phys, but local vit/acid…
elp
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Just checked fire RF.
Rank 2 RF without Retribution but with stacks:
Rank 2 RF with rank 2 Retribution without stacks:
And funny thing, getting RF stacks with Retribution doesn’t seem to cause “double dipping”. It just gives global % fire to other attacks, so it doesn’t apply two times to RF.
That shit is confusing =\
Yes that’s how RF and Savagery are supposed to work, which makes it working for acid/vit so much more confusing to me.
Judgment no RF charge active, no Retribution
Judgment RF charge active, no Retribution
Judgment no RF charge active, 12/12 Retribution
Judgment RF charge active, 12/12 Retribution
all while using transmuter
(note how RF still get dmg increased with transmuter+Retribution active - flat fire dmg being better than flat vit dmg (rings)
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insert “always has been” meme here
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I know the +% Lightning/Bleed on Savagery is global, has been for a long time. But i was under the assumption before this thread that in both skill’s cases that Tenacity of the Boar/Consecration, the Physical resistance on Might of the Bear and the attack speed/+% Lightning Retaliation on Storm Touched were the only global benefits.
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Well, at first I was thinking % damages on RF/Savagery were applying before conversion thus boosting converted damage. Then I scratched that after looking at 2nd tab seeing increases in global damages. But it turned out to be more complex than that… Not that it changes much in terms of building, but still…
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