Hello my friends!
I love this game but sometimes things just look cryptic. I read official game guide for many times and I don’t understand one important moment about Righteous Fervor skill of an Oathkeeper. The question is the following:
After I invested one point in a second skill (Modifier of the main skill) which converts Physical damage to Acid and Fire Damage to Vitality damage the main skill still write that it gives bonuses to Physical damage and Burn damage types. But this goes against any logic. Is it a mistake or misprint of some sort?
If I undertand correctly when I applied skill modifier skill to Righteous Fervor then % skill bonuses actually change from Physical and Burn types of damage to Acid and Vitality decay. Am I correct or I don’t undertand something? This skill looks very tricky.
I really hate spoilers and I want to figure out everything myself but this is probably beyond my comprehension.
There are flat damage from and %. Righteous Fervor transmuter will convert all physical damage and trauma to the line and flat from elsewhere to acid and poison to RF and fire and burn to vitality and decay.
So if you have burn damage from medal modifier, it will become decay.
If you see % damage boost like the secondary skill of RF (physical and fire) it won’t affect your damage since you’re using a transmuter. Also the transmuter will overwrite other conversions.
I don’t think it’s true Nery. If you have any flat Fire damage for RF (if it was on the skill or if you have it outside and it goes to RF through WD) and using transmuter, %Fire from Retribution will boost it even though it’s Vitality damage technically.
Even with global conversion, if flat Fire was converted to something, % Fire on Retribution would still boost it. Another example is Decay from Ravenous Earth. It will always boost RE’s damage no matter how you convert the 1st node damage.
The way it’s implemented is so that you always gain something from it.
There was discussion about it some time ago.
All of this is true. You only need to test it with Forcewave and start with no points in Rending Force and then put points into it while holding a weapon with physical to something else conversion.
It’s the reason why Disintegration lost all the % damage it had.
I’ve made the following interesting test (well at least for me)
(we all know that %damage bonuses will always work on damage on the skills
but this test is about flat damage sources from outside that goes into weapon damage)
I had weapon with flat Fire
used Transmuter
% Fire from Retribution was boosting this flat Fire which was Vitality thanks to Transmuter
OK
But now I’ve made a second test
weapon with flat Vit
Transmuter used
now Retribution doesn’t boost non-converted native flat Vit
This test was because I was wondering if maybe %Fire damage on Retribution gets converted to %Vit somehow by transmuter.
But the second test shows that it’s not the case and the way it’s working is as follows:
- %Fire from Retribution (similarly for other skills) picks all your sources of Fire damage before potential conversions!:
either on the skill (RF doesn’t have it though)
or flat bonuses from elsewhere that go to RF’s weapon damage
- and boosts them no matter if you convert them in any way, by transmuters or globalsaccording to non-converted damage type
so it works differently than normal %damage bonuses that work / bind to damage portions after conversions /according to converted damage type
yet surprisingly (or not because it would then be broken) this is not multiplicative,
so ie. +100% Fire on the skill -> conversion -> +100% Converted_damage_type
doesn’t give you 400% damage but 300% damage in total.
Hey, so it turns out we cannot think this way. See my test above with Righteous Fervor. %Fire on Retribution is not converted to %Vitality by the transmuter because it doesn’t boost non-converted (from Fire) flat Vitality damage on Righteous Fury (from weapon for example). It only boost Fire damage that on the skill natively (not the case for RF though) or Fire damage from Weapon Damage. Which both then get converted to Vitality by the transmuter.
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If I undertand correctly when I applied skill modifier skill to Righteous Fervor then % skill bonuses actually change from Physical and Burn types of damage to Acid and Vitality decay. Am I correct or I don’t understand something?
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I apologise and maybe I am very stupid and you are pretty smart folks but I didn’t understood. Can you just write “Yes” or “No” to the question above?
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f you see % damage boost like the secondary skill of RF (physical and fire) it won’t affect your damage since you’re using a transmuter. Also the transmuter will overwrite other conversions.
So actually I am losing this % bonus to physical and burn damage at all (like it never existed) after I invested one point in a transmuter skill for Righteous Fervour. Am I correct?
Or maybe it gives bonuses to other skills with Burn and Physical damage, isn’t it?
In most other skills the flat damage gets buffed by %damage values from within the same tree before the conversion happens, but since RF and retribution (like savagery) give you a global %damage buff, the conversion happens before the %damage is added.
Well…maybe this guys from Crate Entertainment need to clarify this in the Combat section of their game guide because their is no info about that in it. They only wrote that (what I’ve got) conversion can be made ONLY once and skill is having ABSOLUTELY priority here. BUT at the same time they wrote that if you find some equipment which gives you % damage type bonus (like amulet) then it works before skills. Anybody can break it’s head pondering over it. This is a contradictive information in game manual I suppose.
That is also kind of true, however it depends if the skill that gets the %damage bonus from the gear’s skill modifier is using the %damage locally on itself only (then it’s applied BEFORE conversion) or if it uses it as a global buff (then it appears on your char’s damage sheet, 2nd page, and it will be applied AFTER conversion).
Knowing which of the skills use %damage locally or globally comes down to game knowledge and experimenting.
It’s technically not contratictive at all, just a little incomplete. I agree that both the game manual and the ingame tool tips could be better in this regard.
PS: %damage can never be converted, it’s only applied before conversion when it’s on a skill modfier that applies locally to a skill.
I’ve been talking some time ago about Retribution being completely useless on anything but physical/fire/retaliation variations of RF. Maybe changing % trauma and fire on it to % all damage would make it less so, but meh, whatever I guess.
edit: treat those as % damage from Deadly Momentum, Lethal Assault and Soul Harvest, basically.
My head really spins like crazy about it. I made my own experimentation and learned that somehow Righteous Fervor converts Internal Trauma damage to Poison! But it is not mentioned anywhere. Nothing is writen in the description of the skill. I just found it on the second page of the character description. BUT I also learned that if you use Presence of Virtue skill then Internal Trauma damage given by that skill applies normally. AND it is true that this skill gives you the bonus to Physical and Fire damage even after you applied Transmuter skill.
Well…as Mr. Arnold Schwarzenegger said: BIG MISTAKE! Yep…that was a big mistake when I decided to select Righteous Fervor as my main attacking skill. It is kinda useless in this case.
Just think about it! It gives you Physical and Burn damage and even Fire damage bonuses BUT you can’t use it with the skill which is supposed to be you main attacking skill after you apply Transmuter skill. I think that the skill is broken and needs to be fixed somehow. Aegis of Menhir works logically and fine but why they made something so complicatedwith Righteous Fervor?
I think also that the working analogue of Righteous Fervor is Cadence in Soldier’s skills.
Folks! Can anybody tell the developers about the problems with the Righteous Fervor or where should Iwrite about it?
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That is also kind of true, however it depends if the skill that gets the %damage bonus from the gear’s skill modifier is using the %damage locally on itself only (then it’s applied BEFORE conversion) or if it uses it as a global buff (then it appears on your char’s damage sheet, 2nd page, and it will be applied AFTER conversion).
I can’t imagine the scenario in which it can be used. With the searing ember maybe? It benefits from Burn % bonus. But it have nothing to do with % Physical damage. Useless stuff probably…
@RektbyProtoss Explain that Retribution boost Vitality damage (which comes from flat converted by transmuter Fire damage from the weapon) on RF without even using it.
The game just doesn’t change tooltips in some scenarios whereas it generally does more often for skill conversion on equipment often called skill modifiers, not the nodes on a mastery skill’s line. It’s inconsistent sometimes so is generally recommended to look at a skill’s damage breakdown where possible to work out the damage fully dealt and changes to it. The damage breakdown being the UI display when you bind a skill to your LMB/RMB and hover over the damage range at the top of your second tab in the character window. Unfortunately, this doesn’t work for pets of any kind.
In this case, taking Dreeg’s Reproach should in fact mean the +% Physical/Burn damage on Righteous Fervor counts as +% Acid/Vitality Decay damage and the +% Fire/Trauma damage on Retribution counts as +% Vitality/Poison damage even if it doesn’t show.
This is in the game guide though perhaps harder to understand in the combat section with the order of conversion:
In this case, Dreeg’s Reproach is a transmuter, Righteous Fervor is the base skill and Retribution is a skill modifier. Because the +% bonuses apply before Dreeg’s Reproach, they should increase the damage after conversion regardless of where or how the damage is being converted.
But this is not entirely true, although I’m not sure what you mean here.
Retribution is boosting converted from Fire flat damage on the weapon by Transmuter Vitality damage, yes,
but it doesn’t boost native non-converted flat Vit damage on the weapon when using the transmuter.
so in example with transmuter:
flat Vit on weapon -> no boost (native Vit damage)
flat Fire on weapon -> boost (converted Vit damage)
Sorry if you meant something else. All I’m saying Retribution doesn’t exactly works as % Vit bonus
Strange, i wonder if that’s a bug (or engine quirk) of some kind as it doesn’t make logical sense. Perhaps another skill with the same or similar situation should be tested to see if it holds true for all skills or if it’s just isolated to Righteous Fervor and Retribution?
The thing is it shouldn’t really bother you too much unless you’re really curious because these small %damage bonuses almost disappear when you have ~2500% damage bonuses in the endgame. They are mostly important while leveling.
For example if you have 3000% damage which Spirit and normal %damage bonuses,
100% damage from the skill for example means only 100% / 3000% ~ 3.33% difference.
It’s not a game changer for sure
Dunno, it makes some sense, I explained before how it works
(although I wasn’t actively using RF then but it doesn’t seem to make any difference)
It’s just how it works. Only converts your Fire damage but also converted Fire damage. Never base Vitality damage.
But if you mean it working in a more simple, easier to understand and consistent with the rest part of the game way, then sure
Now it’s confusing just as Fire and Elemental conversions being multiplicative instead of additive.
Retribution Tooltip should change as you said and just boost globally (either everything or just RF) and that would be straightforward.
It doesn’t make sense to me that the unconverted 35 Vitality damage on the weapon you’re using in the screenshots replying to me doesn’t receive the +% damage boost from Retribution in this situation whereas in your above screenshots replying to Rekt that the converted 50-96 Fire damage Scepter seemingly does based on where Retribution’s damage bonus should be being applied.
That’s what I can’t fathom, surely that 35 Vitality damage should be factored into any calculations that use the base weapon’s damage unless they’re handled at wildly different stages for some reason (like calculating different sources of Physical damage against armour?).
Oh c’mon folks Really don’t understand what this guys smoke or drink when they created this game
You’ve got the point tqFan! The official game’s guide says it right away that the skill modifiers apply only to the base skill and it is very logical but WHY Righteous Fervor increases Burn and Physical damage globally? It makes no sense.
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For example if you have 3000% damage which Spirit and normal %damage bonuses,
100% damage from the skill for example means only 100% / 3000% ~ 3.33% difference.
It’s not a game changer for sure
I am mostly playing on hardcore with veteran difficulty so I really want to understand as to what is going on in the game and I don’t want to waste my precious attribute and skill points.
I made my own experimentation and learned that somehow Righteous Fervor converts Internal Trauma damage to Poison! But it is not mentioned anywhere. Nothing is writen in the description of the skill. I just found it on the second page of the character description. BUT I also learned that if you use Presence of Virtue skill then Internal Trauma damage given by that skill applies normally. AND it is true that this skill gives you the bonus to Physical and Fire damage even after you applied Transmuter skill.
Retribution boost Vitality damage (which comes from flat converted by transmuter Fire damage from the weapon) on RF without even using it.
Really don’t understand what this guys smoke or drink when they created this game 
