Savagery mechanism: How does it exactly work?

I am a bit confused about how Savagery exactly works. I read a lot of stuff on the forum (and others), with sometimes outdated posts. Let’s take an example and correct me when I am wrong.

  1. Let’s consider a fully maxed Savagery line (so with maxed Tenacity of the Boar/Storm Touched skill modifiers, and maxed Might of the Bear transmuter). I attack with a 2H melee weapon, being at full charge. My damage would be (numbers are from Grim Calc, doesn’t matter if they are not 100% correct):
  • Base Damage of the Weapon x1.5 (150% Weapon Damage component), including any additional damages on the weapon (and possibly from buffs like Deadly momentum or Brute Force if applicable? -see point 3 below)
  • 37 Lightning Damage (with a 20% chance of multiplying it by 3.55 from Storm touched – see point 2 below)
  • 42 Bleeding Damage
  • 80-142 Electrocute Damage

These last 3 (or 4?) are then multiply by the charge bonus (1.15 in that case), then by the 15% from the transmuter, and then all of them are multiply by their respective %Damage bonus from Equipment/Passives/Devotion/Spirit or Cunning, which are all additives. And then, a possible multiplier for a critical hit is taken into account. And… hopefully I am not forgetting anything! So in this scenario, lots of things are in fact multiplicative, which would be good!

  1. What is confusing me a bit is the exact role of the skill modifiers. When searching for how damage conversion works, I read that skill modifiers kick in before transmuter and damage conversion, which I translate as being multiplicative with other modifiers (hope what I am writing is making sense to you…). This would mean that they are in fact very powerfull!

  2. Also, I am not sure when exactly Brute Force (for example) is taken into account. Included in the 150% WD or apart from it?

  3. For completeness, what about WPS? If Feral Hunger triggers, when do the 130% WD and the 82 Bleeding Damage come into the equation?

Sorry for the complex(es) question(s), but it is not easy to find accurate and up-to-date information about that. Thanks to any of you for inputs on the subject!

  1. The sheet DPS shows Savagery numbers w/o the charges

The moment even one Charge is up then all the subsequent bonuses of Storm Touched and Tenacity of Boar get applied and show on sheet DPS

The successive charges don’t make any difference to the bonuses given by ST and ToB besides increasing %Weapon Damage

  1. Skill modifiers won’t multiply

The value of OA/DA and HP regen given by a single charge = value given 8th charge

  1. Brute Force is taken into account when you equip a two handed weapon

  2. It’s a chance to attack so whenever they trigger. It is possible to get 3-4 successive hits of the same WPS

No, it shows tooltip for 100% of skill’s effectiveness.

Savagery works this way - it hits an enemy for X% Weapon Damage and puts a stackable buff on yourself.
How much X will be, depends on Savagery’s %Weapon Damage in tooltip), and how many Savagery stack you have. For level 16 Savagery, its charge levels table is “30, 50, 65, 80, 90, 100, 108, 115”. Those numbers are used for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 stacks, accordingly. They are % multipliers to all Savagery effects. So, 1-st hit will deal 150%30% = 45% Weapon Damage, and will put a buff for 30% effectiveness, and 8-th hit with deal 150115 = 172.5% Weapon Damage and will put a buff with 115% effectiveness.

I’m not sure, if bonuses to bleed/lightning amage are applied to Savagery only, or to all attacks made while Savagery buff is up. Maybe, Crate changed it to former, to prevent some abuses.

Savagery upgrades (Aspect of Boar, etc) add at 100% effectiveness to Savagery buff, regardless of now many stacks you have.

Tooltip shows Savagery with 100% charge level, for lvl 16, it’s for 6 stacks.

No, there are only 2 multiplicative damage modifiers in GD:

  1. “Total damage modified by X” (Might of the Bear upgrade).
  2. Racial damage bonus (X% damage to humans, etc).

Brute Force adds Weapon Damage, sure it’s included.
A tip - Brute Force is junk, dont level it above 1.

WPS multiplies its %Weapon Damage by %Weapon Damage made by skill that triggered it. So, Feral Hunger maxed caused by maxed savagery at full stacks, will deal 172.5%*130% = 224.25% Weapon Damage. Flat damage added by WPS, is NOT considered a Weapon Damage, so it wont be changed, and ADCTH wont work on it too.

Yeah i keep forgetting this

Charge skills show DPS for max charges but the ST and ToB bonuses get applied when actual charges are added

Pretty sure it’s tied to Savagery only, like the modifiers to Fire Strike. When I was testing that crappy Raka’jax build, the sheet damage on Primal Strike didn’t increase with Savagery stacks up.

Primal Strike is dog poop

Usually, Charge skills show DPs not for full stacks, because at full stacks, they often have above 100% charge bonus (115% for lvl 16 Savagery).

Oh yeah I agree, with that build I was trying to see if you could make something out of untransmuted PS and ranged Savagery. I was not impressed. My experience with Shaman builds has been lackluster overall. Shaman really feels like the least versatile mastery.

Now I’m tempted to try pierce/bleed Trickster but it looks pretty meh from a distance. On that note, am I the only one pissed off that bleed BM is apparently meant to be a thing yet neither mastery has bleed RR ?

I got one. Don’t try to combine with a pierce, focus on a bleed and it will be ok.
It’s possible but hard to have Assassin’s Blade, Huntress, Mogdrogen the Wolf and Unknown Soldier and some defensive devotions at the same time.
Most probably you’ll lack defensive at all (only T1 like Crane/Throne).
I could fit Behemoth and Chariot at the cost of Piercing dmg support (and get free points from Night’s Chill).

Wait, is that why I see a damage increase on my character’s display from ONE charge, but subsequent charges don’t further increase the displayed damage? I hope it’s just a displaying bug that doesn’t affect the actual damage dealt, but it always confuses me.

Not a display bug
One charge applies all the effects, subsequent charges don’t add onto anything

Thank you very much for your detail answer!

The biggest misunderstanding for me was the skill modifier. So the +255% (with a 20% chance) on Storm Touched is added to the %Damage from equipment, Devotion, Passives and Spirit. Which means it has rather a small impact in the end.

On the whole, I am a bit disappointed. I find the whole skill pretty weak compared to its high skill points investment. I am currently leveling a physical warder, and Blade Arc does much better for much less skill points. Tenacity of the Boar/Might of the Bear deserve to be maxed, but apart from that Storm Touched is not worth more than 1 point, and Savagery… meh, not really sure. Its interaction with Feral Hunger and Zolhan’s Technique seems pretty strong, but again, that’s a lot of skill points. And Fire Strike or Cadence look much stronger.

Am I missing anything?

Oh. So that whole “Building up charges increases the potency of the bonuses”-bit doesn’t work at all? It’s just to increase the duration?

I guess that type of bug helps the players, but it really should be fixed regardless (or the description of the skill changed).

Blade Arc is good VS packs and adds some flat damage and crit damage, but it has poor Weapon Damage scaling. With 2-handed weapon and all upgrrades, lvl 16 Savagery deals ~200% Weapon Damage, not counting WPS, while Blade Arc deals only 135%. With WPS, Savagery will have even higher %Weapon Damage scaling, so it scales really well with flat damage from items, buffs, etc.

Cadence is great ONLY because Deadly Momentum adds shitloads of flat Weapon Damage.
Fire Strike has lower %Weapon Damage scaling, but it adds MUCH higher skill damage than Savagery and adds some AoE component with Searing Strike (and Brimstone, if ranged). Is you use fire or chaos damage, Fire Strike is a clear winner.

Read what i wrote about Savagery mechanics. It works.

MortalKombat says:

For level 16 Savagery, its charge levels table is “30, 50, 65, 80, 90, 100, 108, 115”. Those numbers are used for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 stacks, accordingly. They are % multipliers to all Savagery effects. So, 1-st hit will deal 150%30% = 45% Weapon Damage, and will put a buff for 30% effectiveness, and 8-th hit with deal 150115 = 172.5% Weapon Damage and will put a buff with 115% effectiveness.

But according to gamepedia site, percentages related to charges pertain only to flat lightning and bleeding damage. Every charge at level 16 should do 150% Weapon Damage:

With this skill, every hit adds a “charge” to a character. Each charge applies a percentage of the total listed damage on the skill, until the maximum 6 charges is reached. Note that this only pertains to flat damage values; the percentage scaling values of Weapon Damage, Lightning and Bleeding Damage are added in full from the first charge.

Or did I misunderstand something?

Gamepedia lies. My acquaintance made test to check this.

Dont trust everything that written. Try it yourself - first few hits with Savagery deal puny damage. It’s very easy to notice.