Tried Avenger Archon in this test patch and was surprised how it has fallen off, one of the weakest builds i’ve tried this PT. 2H melee just struggles so much.
One thing i’ve noticed is how crippled Sealed Fate proc is for SR. The Judicator set of rings helps Archon a lot with skipping Scales that you can’t convert and going for much better devotions. But the proc has a disadvantage in SR: it has 3.5 cd and 10 duration and very often it so happens when you enter the bossroom, it loads and thne you reach the first boss, you don’t have it active already. 8% OA and 8% DA is a lot for a build like this to not have during some of the most dangerous encounters, like supers and SR bosses.
I’d really like for all on death procs to go. They don’t suit this game very much and hardly contribute to the game. Two suggestions:
Make the proc on attack and reduce the bonuses to 7% each
Increase duration to 20 sec so that the player could use it during boss encounters in SR. Kinda strange how your fate is sealed only for 10 secs
i like gutsmasher on death proc nicely thematic, make sense since it’s an attack/dmg effect
Demonslayer? Bloodrager and specially Judicator being a buff proc always felt a bit sadge to me as slower and 1v1 runner in SR.
Always questioned the choice to include them/when builds blocked 2 ring slots, for a proc that to me seemed to end up with a fair bit of effective downtime.
I don’t know if the disparity between crucible v sr format is the whole deal, because there’s also MC content where you just have the death buff procs wholly unusable, which kinda adds the aforementioned sadge feel.
idono, maybe just add a teeny fodder minion to every boss ever to make it always useable?
I’ve mentioned time and time again that the pursuit of optimal efficiency leads to demands to remove every item / mechanic in the game that promotes even a tiny bit of originality / uniqueness if it’s “inefficient” to optimal speedrunning. This thread is a prime example in action.
There is nothing wrong with “on death” mechanics. People enjoy playing with “Guts” - themed Berserker archetypes where the more you kill, the stronger you get. Some tough bosses spawn with adds that you can kill with zero effort and get the proc up and running. Not all bosses have this mechanic, but some do. This will introduce some variance in “speedrunning.” So the fuc what? The only people this effects are those who play the same mode multiple hours a day to show that “this build” is more optimal than “this build;” and the people who want to play more thematic characters? They’re little people who should be disregarded because optimal efficiency! This really, really, needs to stop.
The only credence I will give is that these effects are known as “win more” effects, and any mechanic that is best left in the start of major combat like applying flat RR should be tied to the base of the item and not the “on death” effect. The whole point of the item is that your build should have sufficient OA / DA before reaching major combat, and that the proc is designed to help kill subsequent bosses (such as Crucible or the other 3 bosses in SR) noticeably easier. That’s the metric buffs like this should be judged by.
Yes, I’m still salty they changed Black Scourge and Bonescavenger Grips to “on attack,” leading to a nerf cascade that not only ruined the original point of the items in the first place, but now people STILL don’t use Black Scourge because when before it was too niche, now it’s simply too weak. Why do you ask?
Is there a way to make player buffs pause for the loading? If your system is somewhat slow, loading time eats up a lot of long duration buff timer and gives those who load instances faster an advantage. Some of those buffs are very important, like Ascension.
This is not really any different than in the Main Campaign - most of the Boss fights you don’t have on-kill buffs active because no adds or you travel too long to the Boss after triggering the buff (for some, yes).
Personally I don’t build around the “on-death” procs - they’re too unreliable for when you really need them to be more effective (vs Bosses) and I think of them as just an added “buff”.
Would the addition of adds to Boss rooms in the Main Campaign and SR make them more exciting and more engaging? Sure, but you still get the proc when you kill the first Boss in the room right? So it’s not like you don’t get it at all…
Never liked on death effects. IMO they are one of the reasons that pushed poe1 into screen blowup simulator, too many mechanics rely on death/corpses and everything else needs to be balanced with that in mind.
Just the very concept of “kill to kill more” is powercreepy and infringes on the gameplay loop core too much.
I obviously meant in the combat, not on meta level. When more mobs killed make you kill more mobs, it can easily get out of control. Herald of Ice ruined 1st season of PoE2 like that.
I don’t think you’re wrong but I also believe this thread serves as an example of how these sort of “win more” effects are not currently too strong in GD and part of that might be to curtail the powercreep from getting out of control as you say.
I think in the case of something like Seal Fate, as others have mentioned, these sorts of effects offer a temporary opportunity to reward “success” (with the very low bar of killing anything) without being something that can be relied on for real challenges.
Unless your goal is for everything to be usable in all situations, I think this is fine. And if that is your goal, I think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
