Way back in testing and again in 1.0.0.9, shadow strike reared up and got slapped back down. The patch is 1.1.5.1 and the advent of Tomb of the Heretic has yielded shadow strike builds that fulfill the historic nerfbait criteria of being easily assembled and pushing clear times much closer to 5min than 6.
The various ingredients of note, MIs included for completeness due to the frequency they show up in build showcases
shadow strike itself, with gradually buffed higher rank values on all its nodes. Prior to 1.1.5.0 you weren’t able to achieve close to max ranks in all without resorting to MIs. This is presumably why the 5:15 spell breaker from Superfluff did not tempt a nerf nor lead to a watering down of values on Morg set.
loxblades. MI daggers with targeted skill bumps. Got +2 NJE recently which seems to have been Crate’s way of saying they thought it was fine?
Gargoyle belt. Another MI. Effectively a 150/s frostburn aura with 22/12 nightfall. Comes with +1 nb and good base res
Morg set. Common element among all the builds.
anubar ring. Not common to all builds but was suggested in one showcase as one of the outliers contributing to results.
Sub 5:30 times bring the nerfs, that much has been made abundantly clear. Let’s get the discussion started so the right parts of the issue get addressed if crate deems these performances actionable or for all we know they’ll nerf storm box again because the fastest build uses inquis.
I think not. Glassy Spellbreakers with double rare green daggers should not be grounds for nerfs. If anything, I would buff Acid SS - both Dunefiend and Deathguard SS builds are non-existant (spoiler: because they are bad). Morgoneth SS builds require a huge bunch of legendary mi’s and perform as they are expected to.
I think there is really broken op stuff in this game that should be addressed first.
I’m in agreement that the farming barrier takes loxblades off the table but even in their absence we are seeing builds posting 5:15 with the only green being the belt. Historically we’ve seen the presence of alkamos rings has not given such performance a free pass on nerfs. Anubar rings are statistically a rarer drop than any boss unique we’ve seen thus far but I don’t see crate making an exception based off the factor of 5(iirc) as they’ve demonstrated the difficulty of obtaining boss legendaries doesn’t shield them from balancing concerns.
I agree that acid SS is currently lacking accessible support and the associated sets could do with a tune up.
I am not saying cold SS must be nerfed, merely that we are seeing outlier builds arise that meet the criteria for crate nerfing them. If anything is to be nerfed we can at least highlight the main pillars propping the archetype up so devs are inclined to address the correct parts rather than hitting other archetypes with collateral nerfs.
Cold Nightblade find it’s way back on top, despite the nerfs. But this time as SS build and not pure AA.
So what’s the problem with SS as skill? You literally have two damage types it’s support and one of them Acid isn’t even good. Deathblade is one of the lowest tier sets and Dunefiend adds CD, so can’t be used as standalone damage skill. So I don’t think SS needs nerfs.
Seriously. What´s the matter with you guys?
Don´t you have fun when playing a powerful build for a change, from time to time? Why all this masochism?
Perhaps you could try reading beyond the title. At no point am I saying “This must be nerfed.” This thread is an acknowledgement that SS builds have arisen which meet criteria that has historically led to builds being nerfed, and they aren’t always nerfed in the right way without collateral damage to other builds that didn’t need the adjustments.
We can point out which parts are responsible for the builds overperforming on a local scale, so if Crate deems it needs adjustment they can adjust the right thing. In the absence of that a nerf may roll up without the community having any chance to influence it.
Yey, read the whole opening post.
If SS i to be nerfed or not remained vaguely there. But if not: Why the title?
I admit becoming a bit allergic to all those nerf demands lately; completely lacking to understand why someone could want his/her own build destroyed by the time he/she managed to find a new powerful one.
As for your thread: Cannot look into Z´s brain but in order to keep SS builds from being nerfed, IMO it´s best to make no thread about that issue in the first place.
Because it isn’t about destroying a build. You need to adjust your view. In your world nerf is clearly a dirty word and therein lies the heart of your problem. It’s about balance and bringing something back “in line”, not destruction.
Zantai isn’t interested in making something utterly useless, not intentionally.
Nerf, buff… these are simply two sides of the same coin and to me they have nearly the same meaning. That coins name is balance.
Appreciate your response. You’re right, mostly. But sometimes nerfes do destroy builds. Like retail DE for example or any other beronath retail build since 1.1.5.0. Ofc I’m afraid of this happening again.
And again: Are those new ss builds for example no fun as they are - without nerfes?
If a build really does get “destroyed” or loses enough damage that it feels notably underpowered, then report it and make a case using that build’s in-game performance and how it feels over looking at numbers on paper. There’s a good chance that Zantai will reconsider a change or find a way to tune it to the point where it’s fairly viable again. He has gone back on changes before after receiving player/community feedback.
Nerfing the builds as powbam put it won’t make them unplayable, it’ll bring them closer to other builds in terms of performance. So they’ll still get great times/feel rewarding to play but not be drastically ahead of the pack.
Similarly, underperforming variants like Dunefiend/Deathguard that have already been pointed out are liable for buffs to push them closer towards the stronger ones creating more viable and fun ways to play Shadow Strike.
But isn´t it all natural that some builds are stronger than others?
Belgo BMs can kill Ravager. TSS builds problably never will.
Some builds take 5 minutes for crucible, some take 8.
Kiters have an easy time against Gargabol. Facetankers not so much.
Those new SS builds are no exception in that spectrum as far as I can see.
It seems that this range of performance is being accepted. So why the need of getting all possible builds heads up? Until which certain hardcore veteran is able to pilot all builds in how many minutes through crucible - within what acceptable deviation in runtime?
If you want to debate balance on a broader scope by all means feel free to make another thread. “Waah stop the nerfs” doesn’t address the topic: whether or not you believe cold SS deserves to keep its current outlier performance, and what items are responsible for the recent jump to said performance.
Well yes, just as some builds are going to differ in how defensive or tanky they are. It’s all about making sure that no build overshadows the rest in all areas by too big of a margin.
True balance is something that is unachievable as it is natural for some builds to be better than in other either in general or in a certain area. But this does not mean we can’t strive for better balance regardless.
Ravager is not intended to be beaten by every build. If someone comes along with a TSS that can? Then great.
Both times are still pretty good as far as Crucible clears go. Don’t forget that Crucible is one of the hardest challenges the game offers so being able to clear it at all is already an accomplishment.
And there are bosses/areas that do the opposite, different specs have different strengths/weaknesses.
Take it up with Zantai? I’m not saying everything works out in every case. Merely pointing out how nerfs and buffs are essentially yin and yang… the same, just opposite.
I can only think of one “build” off the top of my head that we “destroyed”, and that was the 0 cooldown Shadow Strike playstyle that abused the old Nidalla’s Justifiable Ends that was %-based along with stacking % cooldown reduction on gear and from an old version of a Crucible buff to have spammable Shadow Strike.
It was incredibly out of line and so NJE was updated to be a flat cooldown reduction, thus effectively “destroying” that build.
Has gotten nothing but buffs to it over time to Krieg/Spellscourge. But really, Battlemage’s issue is more inherent to combining Soldier/Arcanist which Zantai has jokingly addressed at one point or another.
