That’s why builders normally post vids alongside the time claims. Luckily for you, I won’t call those fake as I’ve done quite a bit of testing there myself and the numbers seem to match. But it would be great to see an actual video. Especially, when you keep asking others for proof. The only reason that 27s Calla build didn’t get posted was due to the constant nerfing swinging around. The people who helped creating the build (some of them are known builders here) all agreed that sharing it would lead to further nerfs.
Not much:
First ever fully recorded SSF HC badge of perseverance run.
A couple of builds with performance stats matching the top 20 (more like top 10 right now)
The first pseudo pet build
The first regen based endgame viable build
The strongest build in Cairn that was oneshotting most bosses (nerfed to the ground)
Last few years I’ve been doing pets mainly. But nothing to the point of sharing, as I prefer to have a working build, as opposed to sticking my name on it and get it nerfed as before.
Then I would recommend sticking to those particular topics where you have excelled rather than one where you have yet to accomplish something worthy of sharing.
Sigh, alright. It’s just sad that you keep confusing ppl to the point that there’s actually some mass stereotype about skellies being squishy and needing constant resummoning. And most of the players repeating this claim, don’t ever venture into deep SR, never fight Calla. They keep playing oblivious to the fact, that their skellies could be immortal within their own game world. But because you only care about the part of the game which 99.9% don’t ever get to, your statements about fragile skellies makes a bad impact on those players. That’s my only issue with you and the reason to ever comment on this topic. If you at least added something like “of course if you only care about the main compain, SR 30-31, nemesis and some superbosses, you could make skellies invincible” - that would fix the issue. Sadly, your ego and arrogance prevents that…
The reason why I do not is simple - there are better alternatives for people who want invincible pets and I rather not suggest that they purposefully gimp their build trying to shoehorn something into a gameplay style that the devs want to de-incentivize.
It is like suggesting that someone use a hammer as a screwdriver… could if you really want to, but should you?
According to Zantai that this is their intended use case scenario - squishy and needing constant resummoning, but a buttload of DPS as compensation.
no, it’s because they don’t want a "0"dmg build taking 5x longer times than a dps build with the mild inconvenience of having to resummon skeletons once in a while
meanwhile then building “immortal for our regular world”, still doesn’t help in the high end of the spectrum, which means we made all those sacrifices without still having a one-in-all setup, that we could easily get elsewhere
we even joked about this “but moments” ago
so when you post a rebuttal “with tree ishtak, +giant’s blood and ulo”, it doesn’t exactly bear much relevance to me saying i can’t replicate the videos of “regular” offensive pet builds where people manage to get along without resummon skeles, because “ultra tanky skeletons” was not the point/reference…
this doesn’t just apply to skeletons, it even applies to player builds, “i can facetank X or i can clear sr 100” doesn’t matter to many people, not because it’s 1% content, but because what was done to accomplish it, build so tanky to survive yet it still takes 30mins to clear but now regular content like sr 75 takes 15mins just isnt’ fun to many people. “oh look i did the same thing but slower, don’t i feel like i spent my time well”
it’s not because of the “end” or difficulty of the content/context it applies to a super minority of the playerbase; but the tedium of it
Yeah, fair point. The Ashendant Cowl is neat against superbosses tho, can make you summon back a bunch of skellies every time they die (three or four at a time isnt very much i guess, they die as fast as i resummon them), meanwhile the blòight fiends and the briarthorn take care of the tank part and their skill taunt so they take the aggrop away. Pretty comfy but kinda low on damage, cant have both, so i think i will drop rumor and bindings of bysmiel, take back typhos and toad and switch weapon to Plaguebearer of Dregg for total conversion (also yugol ichors)
Skeletons are tanky enough to survive typical farming levels of SR without ever losing one in a purely offensive spec. If you want to be double-extra-sure that none of them can ever die, you can swap to a defensive Ishtak/Tree setup and be bored out of your mind they will basically never die.
If you want brain-off, 0-button walking simulator though, you want Conjurer. Briarthorn is the tankiest pet, though what benefit you get from being double-unkillable I don’t know.
This is exactly the point I’ve been trying to make. It’s just that the message “Skellies are squishy by design and shouldn’t be focused on if you have tankiness in mind” confuses too many people who never venture into deep SR, or face Calla. I can’t begin to tell you how many ppl I had to explain this to, who couldn’t believe that skellies can be invincible within their GD gaming experience. In the end they wouldn’t even care if they had to resummon them when fighting Calla, that still matches most ppl’ requirement of pet invincibility.
I think too many builders here are too L33T focused. They have not played the game from “scratch” in a centry and do not bother to farm because GD stash is just a mouse click away. An objection is usually “oh but if you wanna be importal even for low tier content than you are just gimping your dps too much that it takes ten years to clean the screen”, which is not true, sure it might take a few minutes longer to do a SR25-26 run, but there are people who do not care about shaving of every piece of second there is possible. This is in all ARPGs. Like in diablo 2, there is such a hot debate on what sorc can do p8 chaos seal pop + diablo kill, is it nova sorc or blizzard sorc? The difference is like 10 seconds in a ~2 min run… like… who cares…
except here in GDthe difference isn’t just 10 secs in a run playing an overly tanky build dialing back to regular content
this is what i’m referring to, where it’s not just about “build”, but you can have the same build between different players and still not perform the exact same feat, so it makes it “different”/give different impressions, because player control/experience can make a difference playing the same build as another player. “i’ve seen vids of people doing this, but i can’t do it”
And that can matter depending on the starting point/build perception or its criteria
“few minutes” vs “potentially double the time” (depending on how tanky it went/how significant the build change was)
so yes it can matter even to casuals, because some don’t want to spend 10+mins running around kiling “the same” things/tedium i touched on earlier
there is a reason some stuff has the perception/complaints it does, and it’s not just because “player bad” and it feels weird to try dismiss it like this, or using wildly different game comparisons as if its affect translates to the compounding layers in GD.
Wasn’t long ago i had to try reassure skeletons work and might even be good, compared to the otherwise common perception. As veterans you might lose sight of these things overtime as our experience play in more and more in how well something plays/impacts things “here”
depends. if the build it simple to play and very hard to kill / forgiving for player mistakes. There is a trade-off. For instance if I am drunk as a duck and wanna lazy farm some EZ SR25-26 or SR30-31 I use some one-button tank build. Sure, I know it gonna take like 10 min to complete a SR30-31 run on average instead of 5-6 min with one of my “good” builds. But I accept that for the said reasons. Which is what I am gonna do tonight
yes, and that’s the important part
the awareness, and acceptance. It doesn’t make it bad, it doesn’t make it wrong, but it has an impact/causes a difference which changes criteria or tolerance.
And players just “stumbling” into X might not appreciate that (or they might be totally fine with it), to then not “accept” it, and complaint ex famously “skeletons bad/too squishy”.
It’s why it’s important i think to not just brush off everything as “just do X”, or “this can definitely do X”, because the first might not be tolerable to the player, or the player might not have the same skill/experience/control to do the same, and without that distinction/“caveat” mention, it might effect the outcome that more.
as ex Skeletons being resummoned once every couple of minutes i’ve absolutely 0 issues with. It might have an impact to some degree to others (clearly ), but fighting back on something even the devs say is intentional design just then seems weird. Equally how it seems strange when people are oppositely adamant on skeletons are just always bad.
Same goes for battlemages, AAR builds, gunners, purifiers, lately melee autoattacker complaints. They all have their own potential considerations, big/small, “generic” /baseline attention. And boiling things down to “you can just build tanky” or “it works fine/this can already do X”, really doesn’t solve that perception “lesser veterans” might then have, it affects the build desire and performance acceptance. Those details can be significant enough to impact enjoyment, so can help to be there.
If you’re talking about campaign gameplay, especially the standard veteran + ultimate that most people seem to do, there’s hardly anything that can’t be done. The campaign is an order of magnitude easier than any endgame build can handle. And pretty much any skill that isn’t blade trap can be used to level. There’s not really any discussion to be had tbh.
The problem is, like I said earlier, for the vast majority of players SR 50+ (previously SR125+) is NOT their engdame. Neither is surviving Calla’s sunder. But they get pigeonholed into thinking that skellies are too squishy for the content they are trying to brave, and thus they are missing on some amazing experience. They conclude “I love skellies so much, but sadly they aren’t good for endgame” and move to other options, putting aside their most fav setups. And this is WRONG. All I’m trying to say, when builders give advice, they should give it in the context of their bias. So, when I’m asked the very same question, my answer still stands:
It depends. If you’re looking to tank Calla and Crate without resummoning, or venture into SR45-50+, yeah, build around Briarthorn or focus on quick resummoning and max dps.
But if YOUR endgame is MC, SR30-40, all nemesis and superbosses excluding Calla, Crate, maybe Ravager, then absolutely, skellies can be made invincible.
that is not why, or where…
they have that perception from skeletons “frequently” dying in regular content… including Campaign
So if when the requirement for them is then also adding in endgame, not even talking facing calla facetank sunder 24/7, that demand changes, because endgame/sr30 or potentially crucible(that’s still a thing?), dials up the difficulty they were already experiencing…
Vast majority of players never ever set foot in sr 100+(40?), and was never what it got based on. Again, the easiest demonstration of this is the wide amounts of complaints there is about skeletons merely levelling, (or everywhere else in the game), and how some think they’re a trap/bad campaign skill that then “only” works at endgame setups… - and still might even get disappointed because hey “they die more than briar”/compare them 1:1 to other pets survival
if you’re then additionally taking on the extreme requirements like Maya is/most of Maya’s advertisement standards, it will skyrocket even more (which is then why she’s specifically sadge about current Skull & Bonez changes, not what’s causing the general/“community” perception…)
These are all multiple vastly different things, that seems to keep being lumped together in one combination or another and has 0 relation to eachother as it’s being tried to made out to/conflated…
Skellies stop dying at around level 25-35 depending on drops. They start dying at around SR40+, Calla, Crate, maybe Ravager. This is my personal experience having actually leveled about 25-30 skelly based chars in HC. I’ve also helped a ton of ppl optimize their setups to prevent their beloved bones from getting decimated. Hence my “it depends on the goals” statement.
Bleed and poison tend to get my skellies at earlier levels before I either get enough regen for them or those specific resistances. I don’t know if that is the normal observation but it IS quite annoying because other pets (except the hapless crab) don’t seem to have the problem to the same degree.
this is just objectively not true
and it highlights perfectly the gross conflation and 0 consideration all-encompassing statement/perception on things
Even ignoring my own literal lived experience comment directly contradiction this; you only need to look at all the complaints and other players exaggerating it even more.
and my point isn’t it depends on the goal, but way more factors
and even if it depends on the goal, it then still doesn’t detract from that notion, because if you want something as basic as a build killing Crate/Calla, “by your own reply” then still wouldn’t fall into that category/“skeletons are not immortal there so if you want it there sol and or if you’re fine with them not being immortal there why not just be fine elsewhere” where it’s just pushing original player desire further…
It’s a completely disingenuous take imo to try make that overarching representation, specially when it then requires you to “oh but it has to be this specific 1 box, otherwise yes it’s true skeletons are indeed more fragile, as per their design”…
Maya didn’t cause this perception, people don’t have this perception from building wrong or bad, it’s inherently part of their design they are more fragile,
and we have to not only account for that, it also has to be accepted that 1 person playing skeletons a certain way wont guaranteed transfer that 1:1 experience everytime/grant 0 vulnerability magick.
Hence me literally saying even if i copy someone’s video doing just that, like Paikis said can be done too (on regular setups), i can’t do it, and i’m not alone/the “gap” goes much wider beyond just one person. - because there are more things going on than just the goals
How impactful is this difference in significance of perception? - well, people have outright requested to make pets auto summons, multiple times, including non-skeletons/stuff like Briar. That’s how adverse some are to resummoning/the perception of their char needing to recast their pets from dying, even on the least dying pet…
), but fighting back on something even the devs say is intentional design just then seems weird. Equally how it seems strange when people are oppositely adamant on skeletons are just always bad.
