Soldier Energy Issues

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

The only thing I would ask for with this next patch is maybe look at the energy issues of certain Soldier builds. I have ten different Soldier builds and most have energy issues while certain others are perfectly fine. There are reasons why some combos work and some don’t, which I will list the reasons why I think they do/don’t work. Again I have over 1900 hours of experience with this game and this has been an ongoing issue since before AoM for me, especially my main Commando Markovian Tank, his abilities are up so often thanks to Markovian set passive (except when running Crucible because energy becomes a non-factor there).

Battlemage: Arcane Will (great Regen), Mental Alacrity (SCR), Inner Focus (Spirit boost), I.E.E. (Leech, % Regen increase), never have issues on either of my two Battlemages.

Blademaster: … No energy sustain abilities. Don’t think you can count the absorb/leech from Phantasmal Armour as it’s tiny. My Belgothian Blademaster runs out all the time. Faster than a spirit pot cooldown time.

Commando: … No energy sustain abilities. At all. While my two Commandos are a tank and a 2hander, they still chew through energy faster than spirit pots can keep up with.

Death Knight: … No energy sustain abilities at all. Considering casting things like Bone Harvest or Siphon Souls is a very real thing for DK then energy should be something supported here.

Tactician: … No energy sustain abilities at all. My tank Tactician that has minimal skills to use ends up draining his energy faster than pots can keep up with. My friends ranged auto attack Cadence build has energy issues too with very few abilities to use.

Warder: Mogdrogen’s Pact, good enough to keep you just having to use pots when fights are drawn out. Tank Warder with Dawn Breaker’s set never has issues.

Warlord: Presence of Virtue, same as Mogdrogen’s Pact, supports everything (except for the cost of a maxed EoR, but that being a channel skill that’s a fair enough energy cost. Only needed to take Inspiration devotion here and it’s supported EoR well, along with PoV).

Witchblade: … No energy sustain abilities here again. Casting things like Doom Bolt on a Chaos 2-hander build, or even trying to use the ability on something like Obsidian Juggernaut just chews up the energy faster than anything can keep up with. Tried to use energy regen buff pots, spirit pots and energy pool increasing pots and no matter what, the OJ ability or Doom Bolt just drains it all too fast.

The common factor here is Soldier however. You take most of those second classes in combo with any other class and energy seems fine (usually) and that means Soldier is the weak link here (in energy sustain only mind you, strong class otherwise). You can do things like take Bard’s Harp: Inspiration, run energy pool/regen buff pots, use your spirit pots, but when all of those become essential to a build being able to sustain itself, while others don’t even need spirit pots, it feels bad.

Mostly this is just the comparison to other certain soldier builds being fine and others just not having the sustain. I tried looking through the build compendium and never found a Soldier combo build with more than maybe 40/50 energy regen (except for Battlemage, Warder and Warlord of course) which is just not enough. Not when one ability can cost 3 times more than that. This isn’t taking into account Crucible either as it’s now been superseded by Shattered Realm in my eyes and in SR there is no energy regen buffs as far as I’m aware.

Soldier is my favourite class, but I have abandoned so many builds because, short of being forced to take something like Inspiration, I could not make their energy costs sustainable. These builds have also had minimal skills to use as well, mostly auto-attacks or passive damage, and yet they still could not keep up with the energy cost. But while playing those same builds next to a friends Shaman with Moggy’s Pact and Oathkeeper with Presence of Virtue, they were totally fine and had no energy issues at all. Especially next to something like my friends Archon, with both Moggie’s Pact and PoV together, that build never even needs to use a spirit pot! And neither do I when I play alongside it, but alone I can’t sustain my energy costs at all.

Now while I understand that spirit pots exist for a reason, as well as other regen tools and that if you give people too much regen they’ll never need to use them, but when some builds don’t need them at all and regen faster than they can spend it or at least enough that you only need a spirit pot every once in a while, and your build can’t keep up with them even when using a spirit pot on cooldown and the regen elixir’s at the same time? I’m sure you can see how that might feel unfair or unbalanced to someone in that position. And no I don’t want to take Inspiration in every single Soldier build >.> but I’m feeling like I have to if I wanna be able to use my abilities with reckless abandon, like other builds can do already lol.

Honestly just giving Soldiers a passive amount of regen like Presence of Virtue for Oathkeepers or Mogdrogen’s Pact for Shamans would sort them out in terms of energy. I know that means Warlords would end up having even more regen, more than they need, but Archons get that already with the two combo of their passives giving plenty of regen, so why can’t Soldiers? Soldiers get the least passive spirit of all classes in their mastery bar, and most accessory items they take require very little spirit, and physical damage doesn’t scale with spirit, so there’s little to no incentive to put points there for a Soldier either. With that in mind, shouldn’t they have passive energy regen somewhere in their skills to support the fact they get almost none through any other means either? Like Oathkeeper does have in Presence of Virtue?

I get that other people may not view it this way, but I personally am feeling forced to take options that aren’t ones I want to take for a certain build, just to make it sustainable energy wise, while other builds don’t need to do that at all. Please bring Soldiers up to meet everyone else with their energy sustain.

2

-1,Soldiers have a lot of great bonuses instead of Energy Regen. And it is difficult for other experts to get them.
So the Soldier is good enough as it is.

3

Honestly, most of my serious builds are Soldier-based, and, believe it or not, even if I have 7 energy regen, I see no need of any energy regen sources.

There are plenty of ways of getting energy regen, one of the most common ones is just a simple Arcane Spark that is put into your medal. You can also find plenty of other ways of getting high energy regen via items/devotions.

4

I disagree.

You gain a lots of stuff in return. Health, OA, DA, armor, armor absorb DR%, stun res and slow res that a far harder to get with other masteries(not individually but the complete package). Giving energy regen to soldier would remove one of few weaknesses(which honestly quite small and easily solved with some components and augments) that soldier still has.

No single mastery is supposed to be perfect. I mean I could use your closing argument for auguring to add any stats to a mastery that it has it as a weakness. Like adding the benefit of field command or Military Conditioning to Arcanist.

5

So the fact that something like Oathkeeper gets flat OA from PoV and %OA and Crowd Control reduction from Clarity of Purpose, %DA from Resilience, Armour from Safeguard, %Health from Haven, %Physical/Fire/Poison/Vitality Resistance Reduction from Guardians, Crit damage from Divine Mandate, Damage Absorption from Ascension and on top of all that still gets the energy regen on PoV, means that Soldier shouldn’t get it because of something like Military Conditioning and Field Command? You do see how glaringly full of holes that comparison is right?

Soldier doesn’t have even half of that, but all of the energy issues. And no, I don’t want to just use an Arcane Spark on every Soldier build, sometimes I want a Tainted Heart for the crit damage due to Soldiers not having a single passive that increases crit damage like Oathkeepers/Arcanists do. Sometimes Arcane Spark isn’t even enough to stem the tide either. I don’t want to take Inspiration for every build I do. That feels really bad to be locked into a devotion for that class, because of a glaring inadequacy on the classes part.

All in all the statement that Soldier gets all this stuff so shouldn’t be given the energy regen advantage, clearly doesn’t hold true to something like Oathkeeper. Also, when Soldier is combined with Arcanist, Shaman or Oathkeeper it stops having said energy issues, which means it only suffers that problem when not used with those 3 classes, not because of how awesome it is or some intentional disadvantage. That means some builds suffer and others don’t, using the same Soldier class, simply because of the lack of energy regen in those other classes too.

That just pigeon-holes you into combining it with those 3 regen supported classes if you want to be able to sustain your build easily. Those builds don’t have an issue with energy, why do the others have to have it? Warlord doesn’t have energy issues and look at all the cool stuff you get with that class combo. Strong as hell. All the aforementioned cool (better than Soldier) stats from the start of this comment and all the amazing Soldier stats too, but no energy issues suffered in exchange for all that awesomeness. That completely invalidates the whole “it lacks energy in exchange for what you get”. Because you can negate that disadvantage with any of those particular class combos. But that leaves the rest of the combos scrounging for energy and having to take things not necessarily ideal for their build just to get the energy other builds have plenty of. Which, again, forces you into builds with those particular combos if you want it to be sustainable energy wise.

Warder: no energy issues, Warlord: no energy issues, Battlemage: no energy issues, the rest: Soldier is just too awesome so they aren’t allowed to have energy regen. looks back at the other 3 builds with no energy penalty but… what about… huh?

Doesn’t quite look like a fair comparison, when some combos with the class have no issues at all, and the other combos have plenty of energy issues or need less than ideal ways of getting said energy. My main point here is this comparison, of builds that don’t even have to try to get energy regen because their best passives/auras have plenty of it, while others have to factor in devotions they may not want to take and items that may not suit their build just to get the same kind of regen. It’s just horribly unbalanced.

6

Yes, the Oathkeeper is bit on the OP side and I expect that they will receive some minor or perhaps some not so minor nerfs in the upcoming patches. But do not forget you do not have a 100% upkeep on Ascension/Clarity of Purpose and Resilience. Consecration also needs RF to charge making it limited in usage. You can’t just straight compare these to passive that have a 100% uptime.
It would also be fairer to compare solider to something like arcanist or Demolitionist then a new mastery that by previous experience are released on the OP side.

And seriously Battlemages? Do really want to say that they are more powerful then Blademasters or Tacticians? And if not should Battlemages be just as powerful as Blademasters or Tacticians in terms of offense?

And about having to go out you way to make sub optimal choices to gain enough stats, every mastery combination (with the exception of Warlord in some casses) has to do that. Try gaining enough stun/slow res with mastery combinations that does not has access to skills that boost it like a pyromancer. Try gaining enough armor on spellbinder or warlock in caster armor. Every class has its own advantages and disadvantages and soldier already has more advantages then most. Giving it easy energy regen is unwarranted IMO.

I mean why should solider gain energy regen and not say Demolitionist or Nightblade?

7

Lirterally on Mandate and PoV are universal passives there, the others are stuck in temporary buffs like Righteous Fervor, Resilience and Ascension. The flat armor on Safeguard is tied to shield only.

Soldier gets substantial % armor, flat OA and % OA, movement speed, damage absorption, flat physical, % all damage, flat DA, % health, % physique, % armor absorption, stun/freeze, elemental, slow and bleeding resistance resistance, flat and % health regen, attack and cast speed all in passives and toggled buffs. These are up 100% of the time.

Then you have stuff like War Cry reducing damage by 25% at soft cap and 30 flat phys res at soft cap. Combined with Warborn helm and it has 100% uptime.

And Oathkeeper isn’t OP in the slightest.

8

I didn’t say Battlemages were as strong, simply that their energy sustain is really good due to passives they have access to, and that was it.

Demo and Nightblade could do with energy regen as well, as I said certain combo’s with Soldier suffer because the class they are combined with also has no regen, if anything they should get some form of it too if you don’t want to give it to Soldier. As far as I’m concerned energy regen should not be something you have to be overly concerned with as there’s so many other factors that could do with your attention first. For any build imo.

And funny you mentioned Pyromancer, my friend has a Harbinger Doom Bolt Pyromancer using Hourglass to reset his DB, and he eats energy almost faster than a pot can cooldown too, so Demo (or even at least Occultist, being a caster class) could definitely do with energy regen help as well. Even just lowering the cooldown on spirit pots would be enough to help some builds lol.

Also the fact that some builds don’t have to go out of their way at all for energy regen and get to take exactly what they want to take and be fine but other builds have to take less than ideal things to get that energy sustain is just not balanced. My Commando Markovian build re-speced as a Warlord Markovian with Oathkeeper as second mastery instead (all that changes is the 2nd mastery and some skill point distribution) gets to have its cake and eat it too, with plenty enough regen, whereas the Commando version just cannot sustain as well as it does not get all the good things OK/Warlord does. You can see the glaring faults there. When one mastery combo cannot sustain unless it goes out of it’s way for non-ideal stuff and another one can take every ideal thing it wants with no trouble and have sustain as well, that’s just not equal footing.

At the very least they give those classes that don’t have sustain (but can be used as casters) some energy sustain, that would be great I think. Like a Nightblade Phantasmal Blades caster could do with more sustain than Phantasmal Armour gives. An Occultist casting things like Doom Bolt and Sigil and CoF could do with more sustain too. Demo casting things like Stun Jacks as a no-cooldown skill, resetting their Grenado/Canister Bomb, stuff like that could do with more sustain as well. Energy regen should be so much lower on the priority list than it is for so many builds. Not non-existant of course (because then what’s the point of even having energy), but less of a priority at least.

9

Just use energy pots or use better devotions. 4Head

Edit: On a more serious note, I think this is not an issue.

10

I also feel its non issue. Solder get so many goodies including great passive CC resistances and, in my personal opinion, best sustain - field command(work for everything, boost every single damage type, gives both OA and DA for one point). I think energy is fair trade for such awesome goodies)

11

My physical BM only has 1 point on Phantasmal Armor…
Never face a situation that is lack of energy juice.
Augment like Hammerfall Powder and Steelbloom Powder they all offer enegy regen.

Commando: … No energy sustain abilities. At all. While my two Commandos are a tank and a 2hander, they still chew through energy faster than spirit pots can keep up with.

Probably on Fire Commando. Several components provide good energy leech such as Soul Shard, Prismatic Diamond, & Arcane Spark.
Maybe a better arrangement on your own devotion, compenents, and augments is what you need.

12

Lol, Soldier’s skills are so damn CHEAP on energy, that he doesnt even need any extra energy sustain! And there are things like Arcane Spark. Bard’s Harp, Tree of life to provide energy sustain, if you need it to spam skills left and right and dont drink a potion (like in my build).

Yes, Arcanist has the greatest energy sustain of all classes. So what? He’s still one of the WEAKEST classes in my opinion. He doesnt even possess ANY resistance reduction, and all his skills are expensive as shit!

13

+1,There is nothing to gain from the surplus energy. I think Spirit has a similar problem.

14

You “can” just jack up the energy costs all around on every class to compensate.

15

I don’t care if the cost increases are implemented, but I will be criticized by many people who don’t want it.:eek: