Way back when in vanilla GD, I wanted to make a tanky character to melt enemies with retaliation a la Thorns Paladin of old from D2. Seeing as Soldier had a nice assortment of Retaliation skills with Counterstrike and Menhir’s Bulwark, and nice failsafes with Menhir’s Will, Overguard, and shield synergies, it seemed like the logical first choice. Looking at the rest, once I knew where my points were going, it was clear I only really have space for some support skills, so I chose Demolitionist for many of the same reasons. Retaliation boosts in Temper, thematically fitting Vindictive Flame (that now also adds retaliation) and another failsafe in Blast Shield. (build here: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/M2gGWYY2 Currently flip flopping between using Cadence or Blade Arc)
Needless to say, the game has changed a lot since vanilla, with new masteries, new mechanics, tons of new gear and constellations. Retaliation builds always struggled with enemies that don’t attack from melee, or don’t do it very often. Archers, Spellcasters and many bosses require you to demean yourself by slapping them in the face with a weapon like some peasant. Which is why Retaliation Added to Attack was a wonderful addition.
However, looking at it now, it seems like Commando has been left somewhat behind. Some masteries have Retaliation Added to Attack baked in from the start (Oathkeeper), or have easy access to it from gear (Shaman for instance), but it seems like Commando got the short end of the stick. Fire Strike does not get added retaliation, neither does Cadence, or Blade Arc, leaving Commandos high and dry in terms of main attacks. There is the odd retaliation added to Canister Bomb but that is about as much as Commando gets.
So my question is, do you guys think the devs should add more Retaliation support for Soldier/Demolitionist to help them keep up what we see in other Retaliation related masteries? Or better yet, have any of you found a Retaliation-focused Commando build that works well?
Yeah, I’ve seen that one. It was the only thing I could find that was even remotely up to date (most were back from 2016-17). Honestly, I’m not quite sure how he’s doing so well, the skill tree seems like a total mess to me (random extra point in Canister Bomb yet low level on Improved Casing for AoE, Shattering Blast not maxed for the retaliation but random points invested in the transmuter, flashbang and Ulzuin’s Wrath, etc.). One thing I’m wondering: would the retaliation damage applied to Canister Bomb work on the exploded shrapnel as well? Cause in that case maxing Canister Bomb for maximum shrapnel count would do insane damage.
You will have only your +10% retaliation damage transmute to Canister Bomb. Skill damage scales with basic damage bonuses (like from Ulzuins set) and overcap of skill. If you want to get more retaliation damage on Canister Bomb, you will need a lot of items with +% retaliation damage to Canister Bomb to get nice retaliation damage. But yes shrapnel will do all transmuted retaliation damage, so more fragments you have more damage you will do.
I see. You’re obviously more experienced with the game than I am (I’ve played tonnes but I usually progress my characters at the same pace to make comparisons/benchmarking and loot sharing easier so I got a ton of characters at start of Elite and only a handful at Ultimate) so I’m wondering, if that is the case for Canister Bomb, why didn’t you invest more in it to max out the shrapnel, instead of some of the other investments you made? Is even the minor defensive boost you get from Flashbang worth the points in order to survive on Ultimate?
Also, do you think the Canister Bomb + Grenado Retaliation to attack conversion is enough for Commandos to work as a Retaliation build? I find that most classes offer a wide variety of ways to approach a given build design, yet Commando seems so restricted in the options they have to apply retaliation damage to non-attacking enemies that they really don’t get much wiggle room where builds with Shaman and Oathkeeper in them seem to get an overabundance of options (like additional retaliation to attack conversion on Righteous Fervor that already has it built-in from the start). I would much prefer if Commandos had the breadth of options other classes have in this regard, with Fire Strike, Blade Arc, Stun Jacks and Cadence being perfect candidates for main attack retaliation conversion. Blade Arc especially seems to me like a relatively poorly supported skill that would do great with some retaliation love.
I did not maxed Canister Bomb because of few reasons 1) It will not do a lot of damage profit (you have only 10% retaliation conversion) so the damage will not be so good if you max skill 2) this is retaliation-melee build, it requires super defense because you will need to absorb all melee enemy damage, they get almost all damage from you while kick your ass, so you need to be really strong to absorb all their damage (that’s why I put my skill points to other defensive skills) 3) Flashbang gets only 1+1 point, and it is useful against too powerful bosses and nemesis, to confuse their attacks and make them miss.
Both Grenado and Canister bomb and also Flame Breath (skill that I used from Mask of Infernal Truth) is the weapon only from one type of monsters NON-Melee. They don’t receive your retaliation damage, so you can hit them only by this skills, and even so, you will require a lot of time to kill them, this is the minus of retaliation type builds. Even Counterstrike doesnt help much from such enemies like Archmage Aleksander or Valdaran.
Well that doesnt mean that Commando is weaker, I have retaliation Warder and if compare their damage and skills, even with less damage Commando kills monsters faster than Warder, it is because Commando has more options to get extra RR. And for shure it has more powerful defense than Warder or Warlord (in my opinion). Retaliation builds first of all is a tanky type of builds, they don’t kill fast but kill safe and for shure, if you want more offensive build, you should try Shieldbreaker on Ulzuins Set, or Archon with Cyclone set etc.