I always considered the Chosen as a group of well wishing people who have been misled by their leader whereas the Order is just necromancers who know what they are doing and don’t give a damn about it.
I don’t see the Order as good and Chosen as evil. Atleast the Chosen have ignorance as an excuse.
Well not after this expansion. They want to stop that “evil” god. They have several camps of necromancers telling you how stupid you are siding with Kymon’s and helping unleash this evil.
What I hoped to see was the group bounce back from being mislead, to see them marching to the front because Kymon is now a heretic. Going back to the sanctuary after the expansion was bloody disappointing. Elluvius would of been the perfect character to use to do this.
Hell the character that replaced Kymon is Korvaak worshipper he tells you outright and he is just hanging out the sanctuary. The messenger is still there as well. Ranting that what you did in forgotten gods was pointless and he is being salty.
To be honest, I would have loved if we could gather the Chosen/Order and march on both Korvaak and the Witch Gods. It would make sense from the story perspective too.
Like if you are with the Chosen, then like you said they could learn the truth about Kymon and ally with you to get rid of Korvy.
And if you are with the Order, we already have the Uroboruuk thing to expand upon.
Would have also provided something for players who felt forced to align with the Witch Gods.
agreed, that would be better, assuming anyone trusts them instead of thinking they are spies (which kinda is how I thought of it as an explanation)
I assume you have the right reason for why that was not done with budget / team size
Spot on.
This is what I hoped would’ve happened. Working with the witch god cults was kinda weird which was my main worry when they announced the factions. Working with the dwellers of the govenbog felt far more natural IMO.
Also Uro was done the dirty in this story, he was just…there. No build up whatsoever. As Mamba said perhaps it was budget/small team size.
But who knows crate sometimes expands the story in updates or they might make slight changes later on.
Glimpse > About Ulzuin He’s most notably Empyrion’s son, it’s stated by a note. Then, an ascendant, that’s possible, if he’s not “fully godhood” by his birth. Probably akin to Heracles
Overall, really liked the expansion’s content. Finished it on normal yesterday. I’m just slightly disappointed that’s it’s so straightforward. I wouldn’t have minded a few choices here and there (like after the final fight, I think our character may want to take the throne for itself, so why not leave a choice open take it/leave it).
I’m really into every things that went on. And I did it with a Kymon’s character ahahah. It follows the theme of Grim Dawn that humanity has the capacity to decide it’s path. Everything happening in the game is “man-made”, the stir of Ch’thon (cultists), the Grim Dawn itself (taping of the aether by the mages), and so the whole deposit of Korvaak by man’s hands, it was really nicely played. Kudos Crate !
It’s really not a good or bad choice, but what we want to do, even if we big mistakes along the way (The Grim Dawn :eek: )
The zones are nice to explore, even if the oasis got the shortstick :p. New mobs are roughly awesome and bosses nice to fight against. Tried a bit on ultimate and it’s well tough.
Now to farm that rep…
Read Writings of Rion the Scholar 6th part - it is shown that little by little the WG started to re-place history books to make Korvaak look bad in preparation for the upcoming event probably.
As for Korvaak`s & sacrifices - in the world of GD (and in majority of fantasy worlds) Gods gain power via belief/faith. I would guess the biggest power boost they get from live sacrifices. But that is just the nature of gods in general. We can say fuck the gods but lets remember what happened once Ryolath (the forgotten deity which created the world known now as the Shattered realm) left - their sun/star faded without divine intervention and their plane was absorbed by Yugol. Its like gods are the only thing keeping Yugol away from every living world.
Not to mention that Korvaak is actually a creator of worlds/nations. He has given life of entire dimension. He is an actual leader. Good rulers know when to reward and when to punish and both actions are needed in certain situations. While Witch “gods” have created nothing - they stole everything they claim is theirs, they lie, deceive, manipulate just for their own benefit. Not for the benefit of man, nor any country, nor creation itself.
What i wished FG did different / lacks:
Ok, I’d like to offer a different perspective on several points :
the Order is not the “good choice”, because there is a distinct cleavage between Uroburuuk and the Order’s goals. Uroburuuk repents, he seeks a way to atone for his past deeds. The Order is not, they’re just willingly tapping into necrotic powers, and it is not unreasonable to think that a new Uroburuuk could rise among them. Old Uroburuuk was neither good or evil, he did some very questionable things, even before the whole Arkovian affair. If you want an idea of how wrong could some member of the Order turn, look no further than Dravis, who used one of Uroburuuk’s ritual for his own gain. In Grim Dawn’s universe, arcanic, occult AND necromantic research are dangerous, and can lead to corruption of the feeble-minded.
the Chosen are not the “bad choice”. Even if Korvaak is manipulating them, they do seem to have access to some powers that really come from Empyrion, one way or another. Take Archon Barthollem, he doesn’t look anything like a Korvaak’s creation, they all look pretty eldritch. More over, the Archon himself claim to be one of Empyrion’s servant, and while it could be a deception, I suspect Korvaak’s is just usurping the Chosen’s faith, but when he grants his powers to them, they’re no longer Empyrion’s, they’re Korvaak’s chosen, it’s even their new name in the expac.
There is also the fact that you gain reputation for the Order by killing Aetherials, whereas you gain reputation for the Chosen by killing Ch’thonians, which means, in the context where you have to make your choice between the two, the Chosen are actually the ones with the correct priorities, since you have to stop the Logghorian’s return.
Also, keep in mind that while some people do talk to you badly at the Conclave of the Three…they’re Witch Gods cultists, NOT member of the Order. Quite strange that a third party would try to make you feel guilt when your actions were not the ones that were allowing Korvaak’s return. Even stranger when you start to put the pieces together and you realize that the Witch Gods are just Usurpers of an Usurper. They ARE manipulating you in making you think that you have no choice but to help them…which you really don’t have, because Korvaak is insane, but they are no better, and shouldn’t resent you, unless they know that Korvaak will come for the Witch Gods first if he would ever be to free himself.
So, yeah, the way I see it, you’re making alliances based on the circumstances because you don’t really have the choice. In Cairn, everybody is trying to manipulate everyone, the only “trustworthy” deities don’t seem to take direct actions…In a sense, you could say that it’s a good sign when a deity is not involved!
Actually I didn’t notice any signs of Korvaak’s return being worse for humanity than how it is now. He wants to take what was his, but further intentions are unclear.
The WG are deceivers and I wish we would have a chance to show them their place. Only Dreeg is somewhat tolerable, as he had motives to destroy Korvaak.
After all it seems like Mogdrogen is the only reasonable celestial being we’ve faced.
It’s a pity that there’s no special dialogue with Ravager and especially Mog after you’ve defeated Korvaak. The latter could have said something meaningful and interesting.
Apprently there is, with Mogdrogen in Ugdenbog (not in Asterkaan).
There is with Mog in Ugdenbog - its just 2 sentences him mocking the player how dumb we are to be played for fools by WGs who he consideres pathetic cowards.
Okay so after reading the Ulzuin temple note… it’s weird. Ulzuin walked among humans? Himself? I mean Mogdrogen is more like a lesser god (Titan) and even he just sends avatars. But the priest talks so casually about Ulzuin drinking wine and demanding courtesans, you gotta wonder if this means all the gods like Empyrion and Korvaak just lived there and ruled their people, no subsidiaries used?
I already suspected it when I read the “Visions of Terror” note in the Dreeg camp, where a seer of Dreeg gets terrifying visions of Yugol in his dreams and turns to Draellus for guidance - then as he teaches him a calming mantra he swears that for a moment it seems like his eye-tattoos actually blinked like real eyes. 
You gotta wonder if they periodically change guises or it would get suspicious that these three cult leaders never seem to age?
The thing to note here is that the Three existed for well, likely centuries now, and what did they do? They did not forcefully take over an empire or demand worship. They still lead secretive cults which are pretty hard to find or join, if the temple business with the runestones is any indication. They did not intervene when the Luminari were hunting their people, just tried to steer them clear through Bysmiel’s machinations - and that’s not because they were afraid of whatever gods were worshiped in Erulan (if any, did we ever find any notes on that?) If anything, they acted a lot like Mogdrogen - they chose their people and retreated from the world with them.
As opposed to Korvaak who is ready to use the Chosen as an army to - “Of Course!” (insert M. Bison meme here) - take over the world.
Now aside from this there’s a note…Visions of terror which i find intriguing. Remember the cinematic with Creed performing the ritual and some fiend tried to come through his portal? That was Yugol. Do i smell another expansion or at least a story continuity? :rolleyes:
I thought that was a Ch’thonic Unraveler frankly. But they do share a resemblance to Yugol.
I doubt Yugol is something you can fight or defeat though. It’s like the Abyss in D&D -endless chaotic evil that tries to devour the other planes, can be kept in check but never really beaten as it is one of the fundamental axes of the universe.
But that’s just it, they HAD this power for centuries. And did they do any nefarious thing with it? They never attacked other civilizations or gods, in fact they are pretty reclusive as gods go. If they wanted more power, they would have gone on a worshiper recruiting binge like Korvaak did with Kymon. But they haven’t done any of that…
Well, yeah essentially this is an ARPG, not Baldur’s Gate or Planescape Torment. I sides with them because they offered the better augments and items for my build, same way I always go friendly with Barrowholm with a summoner or vitality/bleed build because their stuff is too good to neglect. 
I mean neither are exactly “good” and they did not really hide it - but this is GRIM dawn, we take whatever alliances we can get, from witch-burning fanatics to bloody cannibals, if they can help us defeat evil spirits and demons from the void.
Wait, how can the Messenger be there when we have a quest to kill him in FG? Or is that another Messenger?
Corvaak was hinted at in the original game and he became the main antagonist of the new expansion. So, the next major antagonist will be Yogul?
Do we actually know if Moggy is telling the truth about it just being his Avatar?
Could be that he has lost a lot of his power like Ravager says and he just wants to save face for losing against us. Might also be the reason why he doesn’t intervene much of his own, because he doesn’t have the power to do so.
Yogul? You mean Yogurt?
The power of the Schwartz will devour us all!
But yeah, it is frankly interesting that Korvaak is the main antagonist of this expansion when he is only mentioned by name IF you side with the Chosen and do all their quests. If you side with the Necromancers, you would never have heard of him.
Mogdrogen explains the Witch Gods are gathering power to steer the balance of the God to themselves. Why would they want to do that except for nefarious stuff?
They have cults and workshippers like Korvaak has. They are constantly recruiting more and more to their ranks for an obvious plan. The reason their cults are nowhere big as Korvaak’s is because the Luminari hunted them for centuries. That’s the only reason they even become reclusive in the first place, they were hunted by inquisitors.
And they haven’t done anything because they are not strong enough. They had to convince you to defeat Korvaak, or at least weaken him, because they know Korvaak would kill them in a battle. They are defeating the opposition through manipulation and deceit because that’s all they can do at the moment.
Ahaha, I’m sorry, I meant Yugol)
That is, the final boss is different for different factions? And who is the final boss of the Order?
Imo not taking any stance/inaction is kind of worse than actually taking charge of making the world/universe a better place.
I dont think the WGs are some evil things however they are for sure worse than KV and much weaker than him. Its just all they do and aspire towards is for no-one else benefit but their own. Selfishness vs working for the greater good (despite some cost in life/sacrifices).
Also, the WG claim to not have been afraid of the Luminari, but they did hide. In comparison to deities like Attak Seru, Aeon, or Menhir, the WG are awfully active on Cairn, despite everything they say, and they were so eager to fight Korvaak because, well, there is no doubt they are the very first on his vengeance list.
Edit : that being said, I do thing Korvaak is worse. Maybe he wasn’t in the past, but now, he’s gone full eldritch, just look at what he did to the Chosen and Kymon, and a few things he did to his followers during the Korvaan Empire’s age. Seems to me that the Korvaan’s Empire corruption came from the fact that Korvaak took refuge in the Eldritch Realms to heal after the War of the Gods, and he got corrupted by the Realms.
2nd Edit : this idea of a corrupted primordial also comes from noticing the Affinities of his contellation : Primordial and Eldritch.
My o my what interesting lore and certainly makes some things more clear, but also raises more questions.
About Korvaak and the war of the gods. Interesting that he is the brother of Empyrion and that Korvaak lost the war. I wonder which gods did win the war. A lot of gods got wiped out due one side tried to use the powers of the void. I guess it could be that side that won. (from the note:Primordial Ruminations
)From that war Korvaak seemed heavily injured and lost a lot of his power, so he needed to regain strenght.
Loved that we now know how the Witch gods became gods. Still even in Korvaak’s weakened state, and Dreeg being the Guardian of the realm for Korvaak he got defeated and trapped. After all Korvaak is a primordial god. How much power could Bysmiel and Solael really have with the help of Dreeg.
Ulzuin the son of Empyrion seems even weaker and perhaps a much lesser god. The fact that he needs wine and can’t created it himself seems odd.
Why is Mogdrogen upset about Father Kymon uncovering something forgotten and still pissed about us beating Korvaak?
Still wonder how Mogdrogen ascended as a titan in the war of the gods.
Smart that Solael and or Bysmiel changed some ancient text, so that people read about Korvaak being a Usurper.
Byscilla is definitely Bysmiel, Draellus is Dreeg and Sagon is Solael. I do wonder why they needed us doing their work. You would think they have enough power to do it themselves.
I felt the whole Dravis and Uroboruuk thing in Forgotten Gods was rather short, i expected a bit more.
Anyway the lore is amazing!!! 
Btw i hoped to see a Giant pyramid ingame and either i’m blind or there really isn’t one. I know it would be heavily damaged but i expected a bigger facade.