I guess I’ll see… never had much problem the times I used them past A1 either. Not really foreseeing much problems post-patch either. Honestly the skele build feels like its running the same to me as in the past.
They were crap in the past too 
Interesting. I keep seeing comments here and there by people having troubles with getting started with summoning builds in Vet and my observations so far say that theory is pretty much bunk (the conversation is basically about early game, which I’ve always had a strong focus on).
The only thing I can conclude when I see someone type something of the sort is A) they either haven’t actually played what they are talking about, or B) they shouldn’t be considering themselves a ‘Vet’.
Summoning builds or Skeleton builds?
The difference between them are like night and day. If someone is trying to make pure skeleton focused build work, then I can see them struggling even on Veteran.
For example, this was painful to watch: (credits go to @Boromonokli)
I guess at level 29 doing the end of FG it should, by all rights, be painful to watch. Even I wouldn’t bother with it at that point.
With that said I, again, haven’t had any issue with skele builds in more reasonable level ranges. I’ve also started an Occultist build with just focus on the Raven that was doing quite well starting out and I approached skill point allocation the same exact way I did skeles above.
Perhaps, but FG content is available right after beating Warden. And with the latest patch aiming to make Vanilla content similar interms of difficulty to Expansion stuff, it should be similar to taking down Loggy.
I was at level 41 on my Occultist when doing Loggy and did fine on Vet (pre patch). I also did all the quests and explored pretty much all the areas + got a few levels in the Crucible while getting the first few devotion points., so I can assume someone not doing that to reach their in the level 30-35 range.
So going up against Korvaak in that level range sounds plausible for new players.
Occultist is a breeze however due to how Birb works + all the pet support Occu gets.
Just because you can doesn’t necessarily mean you should. And if you are then you, quite likely, fully know what you are getting yourself into and what to expect.
The fact that he managed to win out with crappy (under) level 29 gear shows that it can be done and is viable. I wouldn’t bother with doing it, but hey, more power to Boro I guess.
And keep in mind that Zantai fully recommends doing Vanilla, AoM, and FG - in that order. This is something he has been saying since before FG released, btw. So take that how you like.
Well, we are talking from the perspective of new players, yes? There is no real warning that you shouldn’t attempt FG early on. Personally I would have preferred it if it was only unlocked after Vanilla like AoM.
And Boro wasn’t even playing on Vet, but Normal.
If we are looking at the game as a whole, then it shouldn’t be limited to Normal/Vet and skeletons fail even more so as making them viable endgame is basically limited to either building up your damage to a certain point that they instantly vaporize anything before enemies get the chance to kill them (Sigatrev’s WH builds) or making them tanky enough that they can survive almost anything but do pitiful damage (fair) and is limited to Vitality Lost Souls Cabalists (the problem).
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Honestly that gets into it deeper than I care about pet builds. My only goal is to show that they are viable ‘to level’ on Normal or Vet, whether Occultist or Necro. If someone wants to limit themselves to skeles ONLY then that’s on them. They want to bumrush to do the hardest shit as early as they possibly can, that’s on them.
My verdict stands: they are very viable to level on Veteran and definitely on Normal. In fact, they are the easiest to level and among the fastest to clear stuff early game, if built properly. And frankly, if you are playing Vet then you should have a good idea how to do just that.
Perhaps, but I don’t think you will find any here who will tell you that “Pet builds” are hard to level with. The ones complaining are new players who end up making weird builds due to their inexperience with the general mechanics of GD. So that goal is pretty much redundant.
However when discussing balance, one cannot omit certain things. Like the state of Skeletons or Hellhounds atm.
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To clarify my strategy: I was rushing to get a korvaak’s burning-blade and chosen visage, for flat, for supporting necromages’ natural fire damage, and for the +2 skeletons summoned per cast. Kymon and Korvaak were just testing the waters. Kymon was my only death so far, but I still don’t have a handle on his fight.
Devotions were jackal (pet hp, speed, my phys res), crook, and going for raven, building towards bindings of bysmiel for the %pet damage, king of early game stats.
My occultist/conjurer at level 40ish had no trouble doing that fight, only needed one resummon.
Indeed but it was basically the person at the top of this thread (which eis made into a separate thread) where I quoted someone and mentioned you. The comment was about that they weren’t good for leveling anymore. Which is nonsense. And I’ve also seen a few over on Steam spouting the same claims. My aim was to squash such nonsense in its tracks.
There ya go then… I imagine if your skele build was level 40 the fight would have likely went a bit quicker as well.
It should be easy to test.
Indeed. 11+ extra levels, perhaps more Devotions… and depending on what you find for gear upgrades etc.
My money is still on Skeletons struggling compared to a Blightfiend+Spirit Necro or a Birb+Hound Occu.
nope. Bumrush an occultist to do that at level 29 with birb, then respec to puppy. Then a shaman briarbutt, then a necro with blight fiend focus isntead.
Maybe, personally I probably wouldn’t go with skeles alone as I get further along anyway. The Blight Fiend is a good tank to have. You’d have to see how Zantai feels about the particulars of all that I guess, depending on how many hairs you want to split over it.
Hey whatever floats yer boat 
I would actually love to see that if you find the time and patience to test that
To give an example, this was my nerco at level 40: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/JVlWq7o2
(It was what I did for my guide, the whole 1-100 with links for every 10 levels thing)
Skeletons were starting to die too much and took too long to kill stuff, so I respec’ed all the points into Blight+Spirit. I do however admit that the +1 to all skills from Lokarr helped as you need 17/16 Spirit to get 2 of those out. But regardless they were wiping out everything in sight at that point compared to the Boner gang.
On the topic of convincing Zantai, the problem is how hard finding the right balance can be when it comes to skeletons. They seem to fall in the extremes. It is either they suck, or they get you 4 min Crucible runs.
Well, I guess we’ll see what the next hotfix brings for the skeles 