Storm totems and some general feedback

[jovial]

So I’ve followed and played this game for a while, and I think all in all its one of the best ARPG’s out there. However recently playing a Wind Devil/Storm Totem Druid some things really started annoying me.

General balance/numbers

This is actually just an example of a more general issue I have with this game, its not exclusive to Storm Totem. There seems to be this idea and design that some skills are meant to be “support” skills. I’m guessing the intent is for these skills to either exist only to apply some buff/debuff, or add some miniscule damage as part of some intricate skill rotation, or simply not be meant to be viable beyond Veteran/Elite.

For some pure utility skills (like Nullification and the like) this is fine but in general this is a HUGE waste of your own work, and an impediment to having a greater build diversity in the game. Take Storm Totem for example, a visually awesome skill, and yet it is mostly relegated to being a “support” skill. The same could probably be said about many other similar skills (Blade Spirit, Wind Devils, etc), even more so after the Devotion nerf/fix.

I would suggest that you improve the scaling on these skills (at the very least ultimate scaling, since at that point you’re really investing to build around that skill). Maybe add additional passives behind them, or consider giving them a %weapon damage component. A skill being a “support” skill should simply be a matter of context, not design. Storm Totem should be powerful enough when scaled to be used as a main skill, just as most skills. If I want to use it as a “support” skill I will put 1 pt into it.

I’m sure you guys are not fully adverse to doing this, as we’ve seen when you buffed Bloody Pox in Occultist. That’s a perfect example of how every skill should be. You can use Bloody Pox in many ways now; its now strong enough to be built around as a main skill if you desire, its great for the Wasting debuff in some builds, its good as a 1pt skill for Devotion procing in others, etc. Make more skills like that!

Cooldown

I’ll just get it out of the way, I hate cooldowns in general! I understand that its part of the core design of this game however. That being said, there are many skills with cooldowns which just feel wrong.

Storm Totem is a perfect example of this. Does Storm Totem actually need a cooldown at all, if were being really honest? Would removing the CD (now that they don’t have separate Devotion proc CD’s) make it jump up to a T0 skill? Same could be said for Wind Devils. With 3 totems out, the damage is pretty decent, but with the current scaling, still nowhere near the top end builds. Does every skill have to be a top end skill? No, but every skill also doesn’t have to be miles apart in terms of power.

However I don’t see the cooldown being removed entirely on Storm Totem given the core design of the game (especially if you buffed the damage scaling on it), but bringing CD down to at least 3-4 seconds base would be a huge QoL buff to the skill that I would like to see.

Going off on a bit of a tangent about cooldowns here, and them not feeling right. For me cooldowns in this game would be fine if there was parity between the cooldown and the impact (both visual and damage) of the skill. But that’s not the often the case. Sure, Shadow Strike can be scaled to levels where it obliterates everything where you land, and you can do this every other second. Trozan’s Sky Shard on the other hand looks and feels like, forgive me, a particularly weak ejaculation, and yet has only a slightly shorter CD. Many of the radial AoE’s (Ring of Steel, Callidor’s Tempest with transmuter, etc) have similar problems, they lack impact/power. I think a balancing pass where you removed CD’s on underused skills would actually be a good thing for build diversity in this game, but I digress.

For the hell of it I’ll add a poll too.

tl;dr - plz buff dmg on storm totem

[Snazzblaster]

Storm totem specifically is okay damage-wise since it’s only a 16 point skill. Maybe a small buff or debuff could be attached to it to make it less one-dimensional though. It wouldn’t be fair if Storm Totem’s damage could rival that of a skill which requires three times more investment, but a great example of a useful skill without modifiers is Devouring Swarm. Maybe give it utility instead of damage and it would see more use.

Wind devil is a really nice debuff and has decent damage, so I think it’s in an okay place. Then again, I haven’t fully leveled my TSS/wind devil druid through ultimate, and I know a lot of people chose it for the devotion exploit so maybe it’s in need of some fine tuning.

A skill you haven’t mentioned that could use a revamp for the same reasons you gave for Storm Totem is Mortar Trap. Unlike storm totem, it DOES require significant point investment while being quite lackluster, and being a combination of 4 different damage types makes it very hard to gear for.

[Evil_Baka]

I agree that Storm Totem shouldn’t be able to compete with other skills that require more investment. It seems rooted as a skill designed to provide support for skills that excel at single target and spreading damage over a wide area but could also be good for spreading debuffs in the same way as Snazzblaster mentioned.

I don’t think adding a debuff to the base skill will happen but maybe there will be an item modifier in the expansion that does something with it such as granting it fumble, impaired aim, stun etc… Maybe something more interesting than i can think up

A skill you haven’t mentioned that could use a revamp for the same reasons you gave for Storm Totem is Mortar Trap. Unlike storm totem, it DOES require significant point investment while being quite lackluster, and being a combination of 4 different damage types makes it very hard to gear for.

Mortar Trap supports 3 damage types - Physical, Fire and Lightning but I agree that it could use something more.

I’ve said this before but i think the skill could use better gear support to make reaching the maximum level (or close) on it’s base skill and modifiers all at once possible easier and perhaps allowing Ulzuin’s Chosen to effect it wouldn’t be a bad idea either. It fits in with the rest of Demo’s Physical/Fire/Lightning cooldown skills and offers a bit more variety for those kind of builds.

But anyway, this isn’t a Mortar Trap discussion and i think i’m getting off topic :eek:

[claudius]

I like your idea to balance storm totem. I haven’t tested it much past act 2 normal.

One thing that I did like about it was that against a boss you could set totems and then run around to avoid attacks but the totem still is dealing damage.

[Anathema2741]

Storm Totem was just buffed in the latest patch. I think you’re expecting too much from it.

[Aork]

Storm Totem was just buffed in the latest patch. I think you’re expecting too much from it.

The change to how it interacts with devotion procs nerfed it more than the increased damage buffed it

[DeMasked]

I currently do not have access to my latest attempt of a Storm Totem/Mortar build but in my own opinion I’m hesitant in saying that Storm Totem needs a further buff since it’s just 16 skill points where you can have 2-3 up at a time.

Sure devotion skills no longer work as well with multiple summons of the same kind - however with procs in general you have a far higher chance of them going off when there are like 2-3 chain lightning aoe damage happening all the time.

They also have a good advantage in having 1 damage type so you don’t need to juggle items as much and with certain gear/devotion/skills you can find pretty easy -% lightning resistance to keep that damage relevant in later difficulties.

Once my computer is running in better order I’ll see about taking my character into the Crucible as I haven’t had much of a chance in doing so but having up to 9 traps up at a time should be interesting to see.

[Duck_King]

A skill you haven’t mentioned that could use a revamp for the same reasons you gave for Storm Totem is Mortar Trap. Unlike storm totem, it DOES require significant point investment while being quite lackluster, and being a combination of 4 different damage types makes it very hard to gear for.

Mortar Trap is in a decent spot now. It works by scaling with Fire damage. It works by scaling with lightning damage. It works by scaling with a combination of both fire+lightning and now that Beronath Reforged works the way it does it scales fine as a pure physical bomb like the build I’m working on below.

http://www.grimtools.com/calc/d2j1oEN9

Only downside is the mana consumption. It’s not for “speed freak” players though - make an SS spellbreaker if you fall into this category.

No comment on Storm Totem. I barely use them and never tried making a build that uses them as my main point of damage.

[Anathema2741]

Storm Totem is not supposed to be a main source of damage. It has only ever been intended to be an independent supplemental source of damage while you are busy attacking, and a good means of proccing devotions. That’s why it’s only a 16 point skill. People are expecting too much out of it.

[Evil_Baka]

What Anathema said. You can’t expect every offensive skill to be good at single target and area damage and Storm Totem is no exception.

You want to use it, pick up some skills to cover it’s weaknesses, i.e. Stun Jacks is a great shotgun skill and can wrack up damage on one enemy and there just so happens to be a set for it

[jovial]

Storm Totem is not supposed to be a main source of damage. It has only ever been intended to be an independent supplemental source of damage while you are busy attacking, and a good means of proccing devotions. That’s why it’s only a 16 point skill. People are expecting too much out of it.

This is an example of the thinking I don’t understand. You’re okay with skills being underpowered or essentially useless. If you want to use it in the way you describe, put 1 point into it. Let those of us who enjoy the skill be able to build around it properly.

I’m not saying buff it to the stars for no cost, they could add another passive behind it for 16 points or something.

[MrTek]

Another way to ‘‘buff’’ would be to reduce the amount of totem to 2 or 1 but increase it’s damage. This way the total damage could be the same but the damage from the first totem would be higher.

[DeMasked]

This is an example of the thinking I don’t understand. You’re okay with skills being underpowered or essentially useless. If you want to use it in the way you describe, put 1 point into it. Let those of us who enjoy the skill be able to build around it properly.

I’m not saying buff it to the stars for no cost, they could add another passive behind it for 16 points or something.

Not sure where your quote specifically states “underpowered” or “essentially useless”. It was stated that Storm Totem by itself isn’t meant to be a main source of damage but to be combined with other skills.

Devouring Swarm is another 16 skill point ability also isn’t meant to be a main source of damage except in the early game which Storm Totem can also provide.

To me it seems like you want Storm Totem to have a modifier or two resulting in a boost of it’s damage or adding something on top of what it has.
Doing so would only skew the Shaman Mastery with it’s current skill set up - and more so in comparison to other Masteries. I guess you dislike throwing down multiple traps but would rather want the classic 1 trap to trap them all thing? Personal preference I suppose.

Another way to ‘‘buff’’ would be to reduce the amount of totem to 2 or 1 but increase it’s damage. This way the total damage could be the same but the damage from the first totem would be higher.

This would decrease it’s AoE capabilities when it comes to thinning down the herd of lower health enemies while also decreasing their proc chance (which I believe is still high when it comes to itemization not so much devotion). Bosses that have summons or Crucible would also be impacted if the max summon number was decreased.

*On a side note the % chance of % lightning damage that Shaman and the Tempest Devotion has isn’t included in the damage calculation in the game (combined possibility of 33ish% chance of +640% lightning damage with my build). Again I’m rather saddened at not having access to Grim Dawn at the moment as I would check my character to see how high the numbers Storm Totem can bring - because when you multiply that number by 2 or 3 that can be a lot of damage for a 16 point skill. More so with the relatively newly added Electrocute DoT.

[tsuelue]

Also don´t get why Storm Totem should be able to carry a build as main damage spell. ST got buffed recently, and it´s fine, imo.

As for adding a debuff to it, that can already be done.
Try binding Elemantal Storm to it, and see what happpens.

[Duck_King]

In the OP’s defense the item granted skills “Lightning Storm” and “Call the Storm” have a lower cooldown and larger AoE.

If we’re comparing a 16 point support skill to an item granted support skill. You would probably take the latter. On the other hand, once all 3 are set and there’s only 1 enemy left, the Storm Totem’s do more damage than the aforementioned skills.

[DeMasked]

In the OP’s defense the item granted skills “Lightning Storm” and “Call the Storm” have a lower cooldown and larger AoE.

If we’re comparing a 16 point support skill to an item granted support skill. You would probably take the latter. On the other hand, once all 3 are set and there’s only 1 enemy left, the Storm Totem’s do more damage than the aforementioned skills.

One other thing is that item granted skills are a slight restriction in that you have to make use of them for your build and playstyle.

My own build and playstyle of throwing down traps and running around generally avoiding enemies wouldn’t make much use of Squall and Codex of Eternal Storms as opposed to the Eye of the Storm relic and Skybreach Bulwark shield. I suppose personal preference is also something that needs to be considered.

[MrTek]

This would decrease it’s AoE capabilities when it comes to thinning down the herd of lower health enemies while also decreasing their proc chance (which I believe is still high when it comes to itemization not so much devotion). Bosses that have summons or Crucible would also be impacted if the max summon number was decreased.

I agree on how fast you can proc a devotion based on how many totem you have.
As for the AOE it depends if 1 totem can or not kill in one hit as it is. If not, imagine 3 totem within one, only one totem but would one hit trash except big monsters and Heroes. I rather have it this way for overall momemtum but it’s a matter of opinion, i guess.

I’m a bit biased as I don’t use or don’t intent to use the skill anytime soon. My thoughs might change if a change is made… we’ll see.
Also I wanna say I’m more a melee guy then a caster/range guy.

[Duck_King]

I agree on how fast you can proc a devotion based on how many totem you have.
As for the AOE it depends if 1 totem can or not kill in one hit as it is. If not, imagine 3 totem within one, only one totem but would one hit trash except big monsters and Heroes. I rather have it this way for overall momemtum but it’s a matter of opinion, i guess.

I’m a bit biased as I don’t use or don’t intent to use the skill anytime soon. My thoughs might change if a change is made… we’ll see.
Also I wanna say I’m more a melee guy then a caster/range guy.

I remember some time ago suggesting that at higher levels you should be able to summon 2 totems at once and then once the skill is capped. Summon all 3 in a single cast. I suggested the same for Mortar Trap.

Having to wait for CD’s to take effect to get the full potential of the skill seems a bit silly. There’s obviously ways around it with Time Dilation and Valdanar’s etc but I would just prefer if it just functioned in a different manner.

[Duck_King]

One other thing is that item granted skills are a slight restriction in that you have to make use of them for your build and playstyle.

My own build and playstyle of throwing down traps and running around generally avoiding enemies wouldn’t make much use of Squall and Codex of Eternal Storms as opposed to the Eye of the Storm relic and Skybreach Bulwark shield. I suppose personal preference is also something that needs to be considered.

I don’t see the difference honestly. You cast totems and run around avoiding things or you cast lightning storm and run around avoiding things. They function in exactly the same manner. “Lightning Storm” and “Call the Storm” have a 6 second duration but can be re-cast within 3-4 seconds.

The only downside of these item granted skills is that you’re stuck using those items. Codex of Eternal Storms is not a bad end game legendary but you definitely would not continue using Squall end-game.

[jovial]

Not sure where your quote specifically states “underpowered” or “essentially useless”. It was stated that Storm Totem by itself isn’t meant to be a main source of damage but to be combined with other skills.

Devouring Swarm is another 16 skill point ability also isn’t meant to be a main source of damage except in the early game which Storm Totem can also provide.

To me it seems like you want Storm Totem to have a modifier or two resulting in a boost of it’s damage or adding something on top of what it has.
Doing so would only skew the Shaman Mastery with it’s current skill set up - and more so in comparison to other Masteries. I guess you dislike throwing down multiple traps but would rather want the classic 1 trap to trap them all thing? Personal preference I suppose.

This would decrease it’s AoE capabilities when it comes to thinning down the herd of lower health enemies while also decreasing their proc chance (which I believe is still high when it comes to itemization not so much devotion). Bosses that have summons or Crucible would also be impacted if the max summon number was decreased.

*On a side note the % chance of % lightning damage that Shaman and the Tempest Devotion has isn’t included in the damage calculation in the game (combined possibility of 33ish% chance of +640% lightning damage with my build). Again I’m rather saddened at not having access to Grim Dawn at the moment as I would check my character to see how high the numbers Storm Totem can bring - because when you multiply that number by 2 or 3 that can be a lot of damage for a 16 point skill. More so with the relatively newly added Electrocute DoT.

That’s my point of contention, why does Storm Totem (or any skill) have to be designed as something you HAVE to combine with other skills? What if I don’t want to stand around for 5-10 seconds setting up totems and using other skills, while someone with Shadow Strike or Phantasmal Blades obliterates the screen in 2-3 seconds using only those skills?

So maybe then you will say, “just play those OP builds then?”. Well, maybe I don’t like the feel or mechanics of them, and what’s wrong with more build diversity? Of course I’m not expecting every skill to be exactly as powerful as the other, I just would like to see more options for building around Storm Totems (and other underused skills). Why would anyone NOT want more build diversity here?

I’m not sure how high you can push Storm Totem currently, I think the best I’ve seen is Zars Elementalist Light’s Defender build (however that’s very Stun Jacks oriented and I hate that skill). Feel free to come back with some numbers when you have access to the game, I’ve been trying to find some info on how to make the skill viable but mostly its hard to find anything since few people try to actually build around it.

I’m currently about halfway through ultimate on my Wind Devil/Storm Totem druid, but its starting to really slow down. Still missing Light’s Defender, and have pretty crappy gear in general, but I think I might be able to push 8-9k top end tooltip on Storm Totem (and its hard to gauge the cast speed of the totem, not sure if it fires once per second or more, or randomly). Assuming I can get some decent OA, the Stormcaller’s Pact/Tempest %lightning proc, and 3 totems out (and the Storm Shards), it should be kinda decent. That’s a hell of an investment and build up time to make it only decent though, and also requires an entire legendary set. Meanwhile many other skills with similar investment are way ahead, and all because Storm Totem is relegated to the “support” skill role.