So, I often look through the “Classes, Skills and Builds” section and wonder how good is this or that posted build. And often I can’t really say. Sometimes the only evidences I get is some nemesis killing video and textual assurance that the build is “strong” or “can clear everything”.
And I thought it would be better to define the metrics for how good the build is and add them as tags to the build topic, so that people can compare and discuss.
It may also be able to formulate the help requests shorter, e.g. “Hi guys, here’s my build, it’s currently tier 4, can somebody help me get it closer to tier 2?”
The milestones I have currently in mind: Tier 5: Issues with finishing game on Ultimate. Tier 4: Clear all main game content on Ultimate. Tier 3: Clear all main game content on Ultimate, kill most of Nemesis and tough bosses (e,g, except the tricky Fabius and Mad Queen) in reasonable time with 60%+ success rate. Tier 2: Clear all main game content on Ultimate, kill Nemesis and tough bosses (Sentinel, Mad Queen) in reasonable time with 70%+ success rate, finish Crucible Challenger 150 with 30%+ success rate. Tier 1: Clear all main game content on Ultimate, kill Nemesis and tough bosses (Sentinel, Mad Queen) in 1min with 90%+ success rate, finish Gladiator 150 with 30%+ success rate. OP: clear Crucible Gladiator w/o special preparations (e.g. screen-wide list of active elixirs) and kill Mogdrogen
UPDATE:
Now gear quality suddenly came to my mind. Some builds are good even with average gear, while others require a few crazy MIs to be viable.
So a build actually has a tier range, e.g. from Tier4 with crap gear to Tier2 with BiS and MIs.
Addition, about the Parameter I’ll state it in the my next comment or edited on this comment.
About Killing time as a Parameter, I’d let people in forum judge them.
If it is the best performance that specific build can make and interest others by another reason other than showing how strong it is. It will be fine.
I’d recommend to divide build to 3 type.
Strong Challenge : It use some specific parameter and judge with more intense
Creative Challenge : casual parameter, judge in realistic that it can be.
Under Specific Condition Challenge : (all craftable, use full of this set etc.)
the same as creative standard
I’ve seen hat post before and it actually inspired me to create this topic.
The issue I see in your scale is that you combine viability, time and dedication requirements. E.g. having all skill and stat points is a matter of time, not build viability. And ability to follow the guide depends on how much time and effort the person spent writing the guide, it says little to nothing about build performance.
I focus only on build performance in game when the toon is fully leveled and developed.
Also, I feel like Gladiator 150 and Challenger 150 are different leagues, so cannot be in the same milestone.
As for the challenges you’ve mentioned I think 2 and 3 can be merged into an Exotic tag.
Lol, ofcourse not. Normal people don’t have a dozen of mules filled with legendaries, iron maiden shoulders and incorruptible cronley rings of rifthound. At best normal people have a few basic components stashed like Searing Ember, Ectoplasm etc (no Dread Skulls, Sanctified Bones, below 5 completed Mutated Scales), as well as few below lvl 50 blue items they got from failed attempts to scramble a build of their own, maybe all T1 relics too. Everything more advanced is a sign of impurity.
tbh i wouldnt bother these kind of things in grim dawn, simply
a) where, there is no real end game besides 3 rogue likes, and some bosses, no mapping system and such variety and most legendary items are lvl 75 available where game lvl cap is 85
b) there is no ladder, there is no server, there is literally no1 you compete, aka no competetive arena
c) most people use shared stash or something to get items
d) you can dupe most things easily
tl dr, this is mostly single player game.
ps: c&d , it doesnt mean that you cheat or i care…
my simple answer, i play grim dawn to enjoy my builds and have fun around.
i would push maybe if we had server or competetive arena, since i used to push most hc&sc poe ladders, kinda always top 3 uber atziri, shaper etc killer in sc sometimes hc etc… but i see no reason to push these kind of things in grim dawn. eh maybe i am getting old dont know.
hmm i have killed mogdrogen with 2 of my builds, and i get simply 1 or 2 trash empowered uniques or notdont remember and zero reward as return after 15 mins super duper boring fight… and my gear was not crazy or fully bis or someshittho this guy is mainly resist gear check and sustain… but simple question why you kill something with zero reward? showoff? etc - i would never ever do that even if you pay me 100 dollars, boring thing
i have completed crucible less than 5 times, whole concept reminds me of mindless poe farming thing… but i am fine with it… i could run it 10000 time if i care.
and all sentinel + mq stuff i guess all chars i have played killed or able to kill them, 1 of my spellbreaker failed on sentinle twice tho…
3 of my chars killed all nemesis with just rares, 1-2 legendaries and empowered unqs etc… dont think it proves a single shit…
all things i have listed has ZERO meaning to me about my grim dawn char viablity… its simple, anything is viable as long as i enjoy…
and this is my different pov answer to you question…
The problem is, there will be an eureka spark and you will come up with a super fun build, but the thing that would prevent you from building it is that you don’t have the necessary gear. Maybe for the first time the spark will fade away quickly, leaving only ember, but then there would be second, third spark, and you will start thinking about a farming character. See? You will come back here, maybe a month later, or a year, asking for a build that could kill mad queen in 20 seconds or complete gladiator crucible.
Ok, maybe it won’t be you, but it’s a common story really.
yep i totally got your point… but my point was, ENJOYMENT & FUN… he might consider adding to this about viablity, cause this can be a criteria about builds aswell…
for sure, you might kill mq around 2 mins with your char, but if it offers flashy playstyle with maximum enjoyment… rest might not matter to you…
on the other hand, you might aswell has a cadence guy with shield can deal with mq around 30 secs and all around if build is boring as fuck, who cares the efficiency.
maybe i am totally wrong but builds i play has to be fun and enjoying to play rather than speed farming some bosses in grim dawn… w/e
For my purpose about giving example milestone that inspire this thread.
To give newbie or someone who really don’t know some advice and logic to compare a build in simple. I’ve read so many builds, try a lot, learn a lot. I know it need a lot of time to learn until understand this game enough.
Let me explain by comparison to a case.
It’s like you’re growing the same plant with the same species.
Mine grows a certain high and I feel wow it’s really tall, hmm may be I wanna compare to others.
I may know that mine tallest only in my village, but not tallest in the country, or world. I may tell others that my plant is tallest, the best. But if there’s someone tell me that his plant is taller than mine. What’s the proof.
I’ll take the milestone I mentioned as a ruler for measure how tall it is. So it’d be clearer to judge whose plant is taller. We can find average high of plants compare to others. Those who want to know or like challenge can compare it in the same way and improve it right way.
If you’re someone who don’t care about how tall or how good it is. You’re just happy to plant it, grow it. It is ok, and that is the basic we all should have.
feelgodstoya : Although it’s about different scenario from the topic but thank you for your PoV. I wish it will remind people to have fun in game. It’s the first thing we play a game for.
DonnieDarko : I understand your point. To make some standard for newbie to compare and use it as a shortcuts for word or mention obviously.
To translate from “my plant grows very tall,but yours is taller”
to “my plant grows 5 inches, but yours is 9 inches” or something like that.
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