Some fire firestrike setups came in late and were about on tier with the honorable mentions, but purifier/fire gear can make it very tough to hit the same standards as the top of the list. Selling out for damage still doesn’t quite hit the peaks and then you are glass. Iirc stronghold actually faired the best, darkblaze is too glassy and no longer a damage peak, dagallon has always been too glassy and is awkward to build around. Some desolater setups can get close to the honorable mention at best
Fire RF is no where close, you can’t stack RF+multiple wps % mods and damage conversion to have enough damage on fire
Edit: to be clear, the above after still perfectly playable, they just don’t make the top
I can’t provide one, sorry. Apparently my SSD died and all of my builds were stored locally. Anyway it’s not that much different from Alkamos’s which is posted in the forum.
I couldn’t disagree more with this specific statement. All but one build on the top 20 list use such MIs.
There are 3-4 builds that only use 2 and most use an average of 5. These “god roll” MIs are the definition of fantasy.
The kind that were specifically chosen to boost the performance of each respective build more so than almost any other alternative could. I’m certain that if all of those MIs were truly RNG drops the performance of all of the builds would drop significantly. Let alone replaced with epic or legendary alternatives.
Obviously I’m not saying that they should be “downgraded” for consistency in making it n00b friendly to build but it’s clear to most of us knowledgeable enough to know that a simple swap of those specific items would dramatically change the overall performance. I believe that it’s also dishonest to include so many of these items in this list because 99% of players trying to replicate them will never do so. I guess the fact that the save files were included is a good thing in that case, but there are still plenty of players that prefer to SSF their characters from level 1.
Much respect to @nofika4u for the only build in the top 20 with no greens~
If the build is good, it won’t collapse without specific MI items. The base build is important. Also most of the greens are usually with single “green” affix or at least are contextual. For instance Living Rings with elemental or lightning affixes. Getting double acid on them would be totally unreliastic. Also in some cases actually green items=cheap build. Blitz Warlord is very easy build to gear legit. Also some items are easier to roll than others, like the MI shield.
There’s also one interesting story. Few players (including me) tried different versions of Trozan builds and obviously every approach worked to some degree. But the end probably the best one was Nofika’s and his version is exactly without greens. In this build you can take whatever amount of double rare MI’s but simply isn’t gonna improve the build that much to be worth it.
Except one single Anubar ring that build has takes more time to farm than the entire Avenger build. You may have to update your knowledge.
Builds had different gear score, a lot of them had it low because of double rare items. But none of top20 builds becomes disfunctional, or even critically drops in performance, if you downgrade the gear to smth that’s easier to farm. And even to imply the opposite is to discredit all the work put into the list.
Maybe i should’ve included one more disclaimer: this is the list of endgame builds, meaning you either are very experienced player with a lot of well rolled items already farmed or you are willing to put in a lot of work to get yourself one of the best builds in the game. But i thought it was kinda obvious.
Yes the drops rates to the magi rings are infamously low and even after 4500 hours played, I’m constantly updating my knowledge. There is not a single player in the world that could possibly know all there is to every minor detail to the complex game mechanics.
I would have loved to see the breakdown of the gear score. I also did not say that any of those builds would be broken or dysfunctional. However I disagree with your statement that the performance wouldn’t be greatly impacted. When the basis of this and other metrics is literally shaving seconds off a run. Those single percentage points in damage very much add up to seconds shaved off a run.
I’m not at all discrediting the work that you or any of the others had put into this list and your builds. I’m not questioning your knowledge of the game and it’s mechanics either.
I do not think the disclaimer was needed. A majority of players do assume that they are end-game builds that will only preform as advertised once every item has been obtained ad every devotion proc has been maxed. Along with the hundreds/thousands of hours needed to pilot the builds as well as you or other top tier pilots. I’m most certain that a majority of players would struggle to get the results that the youtube videos display and that’s all on the pilot in question not the build itself.
Builds made like that with realistic items (yes they are far from fantasy setups which I know and make sometimes for the lols) can teach you a lot about how to best optimize your characters and are ideals to strive for. I prefer that because it’s more educational for me.
Completely disagree that it would make significant difference. Besides it doesn’t even matter because most of the builds are optimized in a similar way and we care about comparing them with each other not about absolute times you could actually get close to after putting a bit of effort / watching videos.
This is an important bit btw. Also I feel like whenever people discount builds with greens they fail to appreciate Zantai and Crate’s (tremendous btw) efforts to make greens farming easily accessible and I think you guys are living in the past. Maybe you already had the legendaries before droprates were adjusted but if you start from scratch, most MIs are definitely easier to farm specific affixes on (as long as they match base item elements) than farming legendaries which drop everywhere. Hell the hardest things to farm outside of magi rings are epic items.
You’ll have to either trust us on that or not, your choice. There is not much to break down from gear score, most of the time it was an arbitrary number a builder scored the build with using their (limited to an extent) understanding of the droprates the game has - and then having it checked by other people. Scrutinizing every one of hundreds builds we tested for the exact chance to get the exact items used in every build (most of which didn’t even have BiS affixes) was way, way beyond the manpower we had. Instead we focused on actually testing as many builds as we can to the best of our abilities.
Most people will not have the same piloting skills, and that was also accounted for. The vast majority of videos i linked are not cherry picked runs with cherry picked rooms/mutators.
Just an example: i can run the exact version of FW Warlord listed in the post to sub4 Crucible in the best run. I will run the same build but with greens i can farm in a day to smth like 4:15 Crucible. That’s about the estimate of difference in most cases. Most affixes you treat as fantasy will result in percentages or even tenths of a percent of the end performance increase. While a single shattered mutator is a 10% total dmg nuke.
Also, I believe that the lazy play promoter in question prefers Trinkets over beastcallers and focuses on superbosses and high SR rather than fast clears. Eg-
I do trust you and the other builders/players. It’s just much easier for us all to see the data/numbers and your logic behind the choices having been made than to just take a pros word for it (which I and many others are). I understand that the task at hand is an overwhelming project and all of the number crunching for a majority of players is superfluous to the end goal of an objectively strong build. Which this list and the builds are, so the goal is accomplished regardless.
For what was compiled you guys went above and beyond, so I commend you on the time effort and energy put into the project. I just like the minutia of this kind of stuff and that’s where most of my concerns arise.
While the vids may not be cherry picked I do feel that they do not give an accurate view of an average player farming an average run in SR. Those that know me tease me that I need to play other things than SR ONLY and I do play aggressively. However I highly doubt that even if I downloaded the character files I could get 5min runs like they show. Crucible is a mode that I will play more as I feel it’s an unfortunate metric that still needs to be included in builds posted. Which I will begin doing soon…
Yes, the point on the mutators is valid. Any single negative mutator can ruin a run period let alone more than one. This is why my team and I will reset SR150+ when we have more than 2 overly negative mutators.
I do appreciate the replies thus far as they are helping us understand better.
