⭐ Top 20 Softcore builds in Grim Dawn (An Opinion)

Grim Dawn Classes, Skills and Builds
132

in that case random legends and epics are much harder than greens and even single rare MIs
:man_shrugging:
being able to targetfarm or even shop some of these MIs actually make it pretty easy to obtain, even with a rare affix

as someone that enjoys GDstashing filthy double rare or impossible affix combinations, i can tell you in most of these build cases it does not
again, keep in mind, obtaining a single rare+magick affixed MI is not that hard, so i don’t know where you’re getting the gripe against it, sure the specific combination of the 2 affixes chosen might be tough to directly obtain “reliably”, but technically not out of the realm of RNG possibilities,
swapping a magick affix for another rarely has much detrimental effect on performance, unless the build is detrimentally relying on that 1 magick affix to fix a vital stat like resist - oa/da/physique etc attributes and dmg is easily replaced
likewise for rare affixes, even rares that include dmg bonus
swapping a double rare for a single rare + magick also often has little overall effect
i’m not saying if you had a 5-6 green build with bis double rares, that swapping them to single rares+magick or single rare+random magicks that it wouldn’t affect the build, but i think you’re attributing waaay too much “fantasy” notion to these particular greens
again, as someone that does do actual fantasy builds, these are far from fantasy :sweat_smile:

2 Likes
133

Since the save files are available, I would encourage players to actually try them out and cast their opinion. The more players=the better. Also players with different preferences and experience can improve the ranking.

PS, you should always use the word “toxic” before elite. Otherwise you discredit yourselves. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

2 Likes
134

this is very very true
a good example is, i can’t run a banana build in 4.30 or less in my wildest dreams (in fact my fastest ever cruci time is just barely under 5mins)
however
what it might indicate, when Banana, Roman, Nofika, Nery, MadLee etc etc etc et al can reliably run a build in the 4-4,30-5minute range, kill a celestial, reliably clear SR 75-76 in sub 8mins deathless/within timer, is that it’s a type of build that’s much safer and easier for me to play, than some other build, where they are running 5.30+cruci, not deathless, can’t kill celestials, and have a 50% success rate or less in SR75-76
if the top players run a build in cruci around the 4.30 range, then i “know” it’s potentially a build i can run 5.30 in, i know it’s a build i might have more than 50% success rate on, i know it’s a build i might have a slim shot in hell of defeating a celestial with, “i know it’s a build that has a much higher than average chance of success and not sucking”
obv pilot skills should always been factored, just because Banana, Nofika etc et al can literally break Crucible by how fast they clear, don’t mean we mortal can. But how their general potential performance is, specially something that has been cross tested and averaged out like this, can still give a regular mortal players a bunch of “avg useful metrics” that can be factored in for their own personal piloting.
“if a build is on average stronger, better, safer and easier in a top player’s pilot hands, it will likely be so in a casual player’s hands” - more so than some other build that struggles more on avg atleast

i think this is a general misunderstanding of what’s going on when these lists are being made, saw it with Grim Sheet too and the old GD class tier list
people are not telling other people what to play, or only play these. They are laying out certain criteria and metrics, and saying X build does “this and that” compared to Y and Z
nobody is telling players to play, or only play, avenger archon, but if a casual player goes looking for “what’s a super easier safe and strong build” or as often in this type of games “what’s the strongest/“best” build?” they can choose for themselves if such list and its criteria and metrics fit their definition and desired “strong build” to play

even if pet builds are not on this list i will still continue to recommend it if people ask for easy and strong laid back starters, with the usual caveat i always give about pet builds, that if you don’t like passive play it will probably bore you
i will continue to recommend vit caster because of how strong and safe they are levelling even on HC and have freebie dark one set
etc etc etc
this list doesn’t change the builds i recommend for levelling, it also doesn’t change what i recommend based on my personal enjoyment to play, nor that i ask/suggest people to factor in stuff they actually enjoy, and then structure their build around that play focus
but it does give people an additional set of information to base their choices on
and like or not, in this type of game, there is a large mentality of just “looking up the best build” and rolling with that, regardless if they will actually enjoy it or enjoy it the most, simply because if on average it’s easy strong and safe, then it will be so for them too, and “get the job done”
probably why there are so many Forcewave Warders out there :grin:

1 Like
135

All is relative - when I reset my BPs a few months ago and agreed to SSF a build for @Skelemental , acquiring Bysmiel (not needed) and Beastcaller was trivial (3 days on toon), however one blue item (Marrow Band) still eludes me (4 days 17 hours on toon).

MI++ ‘farming’ outside of those that can be bought in SK dungeons is essentially impossible. If a build relies on ANY skill bonus from an MI++, it is fully illegitimate unless Smart Loot will make ONE of the rare affixes preferential. Even getting an MI++ with appropriate affixes from a vendor is difficult. I screenshot them at vendors lest friends think I have fallen to the dark side.

All builds should be posted, and tested, with GD Stashed ‘no-affix’ items. Then and only then can one state the power of the build, rather than the items.

P.S. Rare affixes have skill bonuses often, remember, and if that falls on a critical breakpoint, that will damage or cripple a build.

Conclusion :: Remove all affixes, and allow people to test legitimate, obtainable builds. And please do not say ‘you can download the build’.

IMHO.

136

you’re comparing set items, where as i’m comparing RNG legends, RNG legends, like your RNG marrowband is much harder to obtain SSF than single rare MIs, even with a specific rare affix

no

no, because believe it or not, a +2 skill bonus actually doesn’t always/“often” have that huge effect or impact on a build, unless it’s because that bonus specifically unlocks something special on the skill, like 3rd blade spirit, in most other cases it’s a negligible dmg loss impact
but moreover, since none of these builds relies on a +2 affix in such way, i don’t understand what’s even the argument of it here?
and the ones that do have +2 skills they benefit from, ie +2 pahantasmal blades or +2righteous fervor on PB and RF builds, are on easily obtainable affixes that are biased towards that affix/dmg type, or can be crafted

difficult, far from impossible, and actually quite doable for the weapon slots (which i think is the only ones that use double rares in these builds?)
i both think some people are vastly overestimating the difficulty in obtain these MIs or affix, or even potential double rare MIs, even including 1 specific affix, much more so when the item can either be shopped or quick farmed - especially when it’s a dmg type the item is weighted with bias towards; getting a double rare sandspitter of Fervor for +2 RF is not actually that hard
i think the hardest item to obtain in this build list is the Blaze Heralds?, but i also know that replacing it with a single rare+magick affix doesn’t detrimentally break the build or the performance
(why builders have a proclivity to use double rare weapons when they don’t use double rares in other slots i don’t know, so why single rare blaze heralds wasn’t actually used i cant’ answer)

1 Like
137

Some of the builds that made honourable mention.

7 Likes
138

That’s quite radical. No builds here, unless I missed sth, live or die by rare mastery affixes with specific ranks. Afaik if a build had serious holes that had to be fixed by slapping sth like 3x Aggressive or Vampiric or rare multi-res affixes, it would have been reflected in the scoring. If a build is reliant on a Kaisan Eye or Magi rings, it’s reflected heavily in the scoring.

Anyways, no green mafia is dead, MI are a norm. Testing builds that rely on modifiers or conversions found on MI without any affixes would only scuff the whole ranking thing where (outside a few outliers) the variance in performance is already quite small and hard to pinpoint.

However, if GD2 is ever to exist, I do recommend implementing a mechanism to reroll affixes because I agree it’s still a chore to a get a single rare matching MI.

1 Like
139

I appreciate your points, though do not understand the ‘no green mafia’ reference.

I would fully support an ability to spend a normal resource (iron) at a vendor (inventor) to ‘roll’ the affixes you wanted.

However I stand by my point - if you are going to represent a build as best in class, the caveat should only ever be ‘ANY affixes will do better’. I tire of the builds which I test for builders, which upon reaching 94 I realize that I need their MI++ pants to patch all holes (I play, I do not GT). Then comes the hole-patching scramble because I do not have an MI++ with +50x resist.

If you want to post a best in class, Top 20, I believe it should function with GD Stashed no-affix items.

140

I select a v1196 fire pet conjurer compare with your pet build. base on I only play HC mode, so will put little more ability for surrival than SC character.
1196 fire pet conjurer except SR 75-76 didnt record videos, all other is record. Cru(no test, because SR drop equipment better than CR) but I will use 1194 fire & acid pet conjurer run 7576 video 6m46s

1196 Fire pet conjure SR 95~100 all celestial
1194 Acid & Fire pet conjurer 6.46 run SR 75~76
1190 Lightning pet conjure SR 110 ~ 117

QQ截图20221015154102
QQ截图202210151541021559×729 116 KB

I’m not trying to prove how strong the summoner is, In fact, after many times of nerf, summonner not suitable for fast run SR& CR，but the summoner should not be buried or ignore from the past to the future.
And my friends already passed SR 180 by conjurer summoner & warlord passed SR 200 in SC mode.

BTW I don’t care about this top ranking, nerf or buff. because I play only MOD now.

2 Likes
141

Patching holes / adjusting a build to MIs you get / perhaps even swapping to a different item is also a skill and actually quite easy once you get the hang of it. Your proposition of using affixless items is ridiculous, not useful to anyone and cannot be taken seriously. Also:

1 Like
142

Except it doesn’t cause Grimsheet was rewarding crucible speedrunning builds and builds that could tick all boxes would still get less points.
Besides, you could easily cheese some of those boxes. Also, Grimsheet did not take gear accessibility and difficulty of a build into consideration at all.

143

No green mafia comes from AoM/ early FG era where using green items was considered the worst sin in the game because they were a lot harder to obtain. Time’s have changed though and it’s easier to farm green items nowadays.

Which is extremely unrealistic because these mis don’t exist in the first place.

I was one of the testers that did criticize the shameless double rare usage on some of these builds, but if you are not willing to even farm for builds that only use single rare MIs that’s a you problem.

144

Is that a bad thing?

Aren’t all these builds intended to be endgame making gear accessibility less of an issue + difficulty is not so easy to quantify as it depends on the pilot.

145

The problem some are running into when challenging the authors of this “Top 20” list is that they are using logic in what really is a circle jerk thread for that Discord server. Most of them have lathered up their hands, reached to their Discord buddy to the left, and are stroking vigorously while whispering in one another’s ear about how 75-76 clear time is where it’s at and how DR’s aren’t hard to find when it’s for “you.” C’mon, everyone knows what’s important, for experienced players especially, is getting that 23rd Sharpshooter’s Pouch or 18th Warborn Mace, other common drops over and over. I mean, why does the Death’s Waystone even exist, right? Why are there even levels above 76?

I’m gonna go start a top 20 list for all of GD where my buddies and I get all the top spots now, create criteria to do that and call it science. :smiley: I’m gonna leave this topic now, before I get anyone’s DNA on me from that server, let these guys keep awarding themselves.

The experts have spoken for all of GD, the top 35 builds, not a single pet class… amazing.

4 Likes
146

Here you are. I only changed Maul binding from VM to Smite (as it is GT) because I hate proccing with VM as much as Grey hates pets and retals. Drank a few pots mostly to counter Energy Leech. Learnt to spare Health Pot for the Eye in 2nd phase. Decided not to use Movement skills in the middle of the fight fearing of too long animation.

[edit] I may have also swapped Guardians / Manticore bindings to have more chances for Sands OA debuff

1 Like
147

most players don’t bother going above 75
just like most players don’t even reach 75
most players just want to clear the content and celestial,
most players especially don’t wanna do something without rewards
again, for the average player, or even for avg endgame content and avg endgame performance, any points or metrics above sr 75 is largely useless, unless it confers a safety, speed or difficulty decrease to clearing that regular content

and do i need to mention, again, that this list is not a metric of the “best” subjective build, it’s a list based on a specific set of metrics, for which these builds are the best in
people that don’t enjoy forcewave builds or melee aa builds, might not like many builds on this list
just like people that don’t like GD pet builds, might not like pet builds’ passive playstyle
it’s a set of performance metrics, with criteria etc listed, people can then evaluate if it would fit or apply to their subjective preference
if people really really enjoy pet builds, because they look awesome with an army, or feel awesome because passive play nature, or because they are safe as hell, then naturally they will enjoy pet builds a lot - that doesn’t change pet builds are slower farmers for endgame, and these particular builds is technically more efficient on avg
nor does it change if a person prefers a super active mega melee or shooting or kiting caster playstyle, that pet builds wouldn’t fit for them, and then this list potentially applies even more to their subjective best build
pet builds still do and play the same regardless of the metrics used for or builds on this list, and people that enjoy pet builds can and will still enjoy pet builds even if it’s not the most efficient alround farmer, - these builds being a more efficient farmer, doesn’t mean they will be more enjoyable to level, build, play, for an army enjoyer

3 Likes
148

With 10k hours in the game, and a dozen builds designed around ‘wow, look at what dropped’ I am going to step out now. I do not wish to fighti.

3 Likes
149

Thank you. I shouldn’t have tried that fight without consumables :laughing:

150

Maybe it would work with different Ravager that doesn’t leech Energy but some Health Regen pots might have helped me as well. Hopefully Maul is permanent with these bindings but I didn’t check.

[edit] Actually I should have bound it to Upheaval instead of Smite because it has 100% - 29% - 30% = 41% devo proc attempts which is more than 30% Smite has according to https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/upheaval-devo-proccing-test-results/

1 Like
151

Pets are objectively bad as determined by the experts here. I’ve read the entire thread. I understand. I also am not blind to the title or how this thread is clearly being represented despite the disclaimers. I’m not interested in fighting, I see what this topic clearly is about (circle jerk) and have said my piece. Not going to argue with anyone anymore, gonna let the stroking continue unabated.