However keep in mind that timers don’t tell everything. Spellscourge got its rank there purely based on tankiness with just average damage. Banana once said he could run half the game to sub 4 cruci and most of those builds aren’t in this list.
1 Like
Thanks, I did get all that.
Was more interested in the actual score numbers of each build.
Maybe I’m not fully understanding the scoring. But, as far as I can tell, the criteria to be one of the “Top 20 Builds in Grim Dawn” is basically intermediate SR level (75-76) clear speed with a few other factors that are less important considered? If 75-76SR level clear speed is the major defining factor to be one of the “Top 20 Builds in Grim Dawn,” pets will be at a disadvantage I guess.
2 Likes
That’s gonna take sending 2 months of discord messages. But it was really close between builds. As was said in the OP, the top 5 builds scored around 45/60 while the ones at top 20 hovered at 40.
1 Like
I see, thank you.
You could argue that. But while it wasn’t shown here due to it not being relevant to the criteria, some stuff in the list did SR 100 too. Spellscourge, the retals, blitz I can name at the top of my head. Honestly the main drawback of pet builds in this list in my opinion is that there was no one in the group to optimize pet builds after testing. Some of these builds didn’t get the best scores at first but got optimized to the maximum after some time and then got in/ got higher ranks (looking at you @eardianm and your vindicator). also happened with some retals who were thought to score at the bottom portion of the top 20 initially. There was no one who could do that for pet builds. That’s if some pet builds are actually worthy of being in the list. It’s gonna be even more sad if there was someone who did pet builds in the group and it still don’t get included
I guess it really boils down to how you define “the best”
The makers of this list used a set of criteria that matches their experience in this game, and none of them (admittedly) are pet players.
So is this list skewed toward a particular playstyle ?
Yes
Are ALL such lists skewed ?
Also yes
Personally, I’d take a build that can clear SR120 over a build that can’t, but clears SR76 faster. I also prefer a build that’s easier to play than one that’s slightly faster… and so on.
But, that doesn’t invalidate the colossal amount of work that was done here, nor the legitimacy of the results… we just have to be aware of the fact that any such list will follow a definition of WHAT is best… which they have done and listed at the top. I have no issue with there being no pet builds on this list, given the disclaimer.
4 Likes
Updated the OP with savefiles to all top 20 (including the variants).
Will add the honorable mentions a bit later, it’s quite a chore. Maybe the links to the forum posts of the builds that have them, too.
Considering the pet builds and rankings in general. At times when our main guideline for performance reference was Grim Sheet it would look differently because in there we awarded big extra points for deep SR crawling.
In here we decided to focus on the farming speed and reliability because it covers the needs of the majority of GD players. None of the possible systems will objectively represent top 20 because “the best builds” by definition is a subjective construct.
If you guys want some detailed breakdown of any particular build, bring the build up in the comments with tagging the author (and press a like to already existing requests). The author should be able to respond and write a paragraph or two, as well as link some more vids.
6 Likes
Unless it’s mad_lee. In which case he’ll just use one of his speakers 
I think he has posts for all his contenders so that’s gonna be easy.
Convince 
to give good loot for higher SR and testing it will be more warranted
How easy it is to play a build is included in the scoring system.
1 Like
Lol, I was shown this list/some of these builds days ago…
The game is pretty settled at this point, not looking to make seismic shifts. Even the guys that made this list acknowledge how many builds are competitive with those that are shown here.
9 Likes
Yeah, that’s why I prefaced this with :
That would be how I would define the best, no matter if there is loot at the end of it or not. Deep SR is one of the biggest achievements in this game, along with quick crucible and beating super bosses, IMO.
I’m not saying the way to pick things here was not a good one. In fact, going with “farmable range SR” is probably a good choice for most players.
I’m just inclined to want to include anything that clears SR120 in any “top builds” list, no matter how slow it is, so if that was my work, I would have included some score for how deep in SR a build can reliably go. That’s just me though. I still think this list is a great piece of work, and I’m thankful for it.
Same thing: That criteria is more important TO ME, so it might have had a bit more weight in the rating. That was just an example of a different set of criterias though.
All in all, don’t take my comment as criticism of this list: I just wanted to address the other criticism I’ve read so far and, while acknowledging the fact they have a point, mention that the authors are aware that their list is subjective, and that they did take the time to define their criteria for inclusion very clearly.
So, any criticism must do one of these things to be valid :
1: question the inclusion/exclusion of a build in particular, in accordance to the present set of criterias
or
2: Question the criterias themselves, as not really being defining of what “top builds” is expected to be
Complaining that there are no pet builds in this list does neither of those things.
2 Likes
Never said you didn’t know some of them. A lot of those were popular builds already before the list. And it was expected that many of those will be nerfed. But if you’re implying you were already planning to push those nerfs on the test patch on this exact day before you saw the list then I’m not gonna believe it. It’s the perks of having a test patch that you can do stuff like that tho. To people who don’t know the test patch then nerfs will only come many months later.
Since not a single pet toon makes it into the top 35 builds in all of GD, can I finally get that pet buff on the Salazar dagger?
.
.
.
.
.
- runs / hides *
2 Likes
You need to make Top High SR builds in Grim Dawn so we get some buffs too.
which Y will win?
3 Likes
It was a joke, I’ve asked for buffs on that 1H before but was told no… can’t help but ask based on this list. And for the record I took my glass cannon cabalist on a run, it took about ~10:01 to complete 75-76 (and is an active build… not lazy, easy). So, any angle I can use to buff that blade…
I don’t like nerfs. I like buffing the weak rather than nerfing the strong. I’d rather see something that players proved to be too weak getting buffed. I believe Z has seen my discussion with Gnomish_Inquisition and I was waiting for something I suggested to happen, for weeks.
So where are the buffs to non-retal Beronath? 
1 Like
I am the darker green Y, right?
Guess I need a new personal profile picture. 
Alright, now I have a customed profile. 
3 Likes
Well balancing like that would lead to power creep and less meaningful achievements and difficulty levels.
1 Like