Twinking Characters Discussion

Simply put, we wouldn’t “need” loot filters if the game designers had implemented a better system from the start. With the current system where items have level & stat requirements in conjunction with prefixes + suffixes + % stat ranges, it was the quick & easy thing for them to do & leaves next to no room for any improvement of the system without redoing it from the ground up. I see that as a serious lack of foresight on their part. The idea that we need to hoard items for other characters or haul them around & sell them for iron so frequently is just ridiculous.
Had they spent time making a crafting system that allowed players to upgrade items with the various attributes that are found on loot, this wouldn’t be a problem. Then we wouldn’t have to deal with storage issues & loot filters. Nevertheless, the crafting system isn’t all that great either; especially when you can end up finding 3+ of the same piece from a set and crafting a piece that you need drains a huge chunk of your iron regardless of what level the set is.

But that’s your idea. I used to do these things too, but stopped when I realised I didn’t like it. And nobody is forcing me to but myself. Try playing differently and you may be happier.

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I didn’t until they made the game more ridiculously punishing with the newer patch & the silly iframe evade skill. I use to only hang on to the legendary & some of the blue sets, etc. Who the hell wants to be starting from scratch with trash on their character every time they want to start a new one & experiment?
One of the things this game does with the loot in regards to your character is comparable to throwing a bunch of random paint on the wall and hoping something eventually matches. Not a very desirable trait after completing the game a couple of times.

every new player starts from nothing? clearly it can be done
might also be worth to mention several veteran players start their alt chars like that too :smile:

because RNG and not playing class favouritism, aka smart loot, which in somes mind is a good thing

means this subjective notion glosses over the part of not wanting to “twink” or rather play with the rng again, and to those that don’t want that they then have the stash option (or speed levelling option)
While obviously not perfect the systems ends up serving multiple preferences of playstyles, while a different system might cater only to some.
Another thing i think the notion glosses over, tho sorta more understandable, is the nature of ARPG being a looter game; you’re supposed to get trash loot so that you have the sense of RNG stiffing you and rewarding you.
If the game only handed you good items or only handed you items for your build/class that would be immensely diminished, which to some is less fun or even “antithetical” to what an ARPG is “supposed to be”(tho that last sentiment might equally be a bit shallow)

I don’t see the relevance. If several veteran players or whoever enjoy replaying the game on less than optimal builds that should be a choice rather than a loot system that either has you wasting time farming or playing each character at the same or even slower progression rate. Its enough that I play it on Normal for each new character to get an idea of how to play it. We don’t need to be hamstrung like as if its our first play through of the game for every new character we start after completing the game.

So you find it acceptable when lvl 30-35 “not relevant to build” epic or green gear drops from the boss when playing a lvl 54 character running a dungeon that requires a Skeleton Key? Just did a run through Steps of Torment in Normal and it happens frequently. We don’t need class favoritism or weighted loot to address this. We already build our characters with skills and the same could be done with gear. I’m not saying we should be able to craft lvl 50-90+ legendary gear from noob components, but if you find the proper base weapon, armor, etc., from a boss, you should be able to build/upgrade it into a piece that is relevant to your character’s builds(since a character can use different builds for SR, Crucible, bosses, etc.). The table is already in place in the game, its just a matter of porting it over to the crafting system. It would at least get rid of a layer of RNG with regards to which class the looted base gear would be useful to.

How do you “twink” in this game? Gear has stat requirements, and augments + components + gear have level restrictions, too. You can’t twink a character to the point where you just face roll everything up to lvl 100 on Normal. That’s not going to happen unless you somehow mod the game & cheat. The best you could hope to do is equip a character well enough so that you’re not getting ripped to shreds due to a lack of resistances & DA.

Lokarr set to 94 → equip whatever you want.

that’s the point, it doesn’t

yes, it’s called rng and loot range, i get the concept of how loot actually works in GD is foreign to many players or “mysterious”, but it’s actually not.

and then you have a potential poor system where you make basically all loot irrelevant say for 1 item because you can just keep upgrading that singular piece ad infinitum, it’s both lazy and greatly hinders variety (imo)

you have XY items prepped in stash for XY level intervals, not a hard concept (just like how in other games where twinking literally originated had lvl requirements)

yes, it’s not even hard, and doesn’t even require twinking either - remotely

That requires playing through on Ultimate & killing a celestial multiple times, and for what? A set of gear that gives you little armor, dps, and class bonuses? Its great to have >50% on most of your resistances from the start, but its not going to be of much help above lvl 30-ish where you have to start swapping gear more frequently to up things like piercing resistance. Even then, your armor is going to be so bad, I can’t imagine using it all the way up to lvl 94. I would hardly consider that to be a twinked character. Its not much different than throwing all of your attribute points into Dex. or Spirit.
I’ve already used a similar item that boost constitution by like 200% and it quickly loses its appeal after around lvl 10 since no amount of constitution helps if every hit you take results in a one-shot or removes a large chunk of your health.

Tell that to people that use Lokarr set until 94, like myself.

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if you’re focusing in constitution i might dare say you’re doing something wrong/misunderstanding something about stats/what’s valuable in GD, suppose the best hint would be the patches that has removed bonus constitution stat more and more since it lost most if not any sense of value at all these days.

doesn’t Protoss frequently use it all the way to 94, on Hardcore ?

It does if you want to optimize your build.

No, its called an unnecessary additional time sink. There’s no purpose in having such a large range beyond encouraging repeat farming over and over again until what you need finally drops. I don’t mind farming, but it does get to a point where its too boring depending on how the developers implement it. Imo, finding lvl 30-35 gear at lvl 54 at the aforementioned area is well outside of a reasonable range and adds too much RNG.

Not true unless your idea is to do this with the same piece of equipment from lvl 1 to 100 and not needing to find a higher base level version of it. Its not as if I’m saying that we should be able to turn a lvl 20 sword into a lvl 40+ weapon of choice or a lvl 30 epic piece into a lvl 50 legendary piece. Like I said, they already have the parameters(level & stat constraints, prefixes, suffixes) in the loot tables for white, yellow, green, MI’s, epics, etc., and the components. It would have no affect on variety beyond having less variety in picking stuff up from the ground.

Not really my idea of twinking. You’re not going to have an OP’ed low-level character with the game’s level restrictions on equipment. Now if you decide to suffer through the crucible long enough before starting the campaign, well that’s just a waste of time and not as fun.
For example, my idea of twinking was when players were taking low lvl characters in EQ 1 and equipping them with Rubicite armor(particulalry the breast plate) & a Manastone that gave them an endless supply of mana. Come to think of it, I recall character level restrictions for equipping items in that game as not being strict enough, despite the problems it was causing. :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:
Nevertheless, the equivalent in Grim Dawn would’ve been like putting lvl 50+ gear on a lvl 20 character.

Of course its not if you’ve been playing the game in long stretches each day for thousands upon thousands of hours. :+1: Unfortunately, I don’t have that luxury. :face_with_diagonal_mouth:

there is 0 need to “optimize” your build during levelling…

not how it works, again, it seems like you fundamentally misunderstand how loot generation works in GD
you can’t get a lvl 50 alkamos ring, “because it simply doesn’t exist”
likewise for rares, there are not rares for every level, because it’s affixes that determines an item’s level, and affixes have fixed level intervals they are not dynamic “per char level” - so if the game were to only spit you out rares for X level you’d suddenly reduce the item pool a whole lot and miss out on actually useable items or even potential necessary stats you wanted, simply because you restricted the pool to 2/30 because of your current level range vs affix interval
because of that stats also lasts you plenty for XY level range to the point you don’t need constant item fitting your level and can easily upgrade at 15-20 level intervals as fitting the new ranges

yes, you are
you clearly have never tried twinking in GD, heck you seem to not even get how little it takes or how simple it is to make an absolutely busted levelling char
^I used to twink, ie have XY items at set level intervals in my stash, easiest example would be ex full perdition set at lvl 40? for an oathkeeper, XY legend slots at lvl 50/65, xy MIs, explorer set/whatever choice low level epic of fixed existing item besides lokar or wargem etc etc, and then just go insta swap, easy twinking accomplished
i then discovered it was absolutely not necessary, not just because of my playstyle, but because the campaign difficulty just simply didn’t require it, which became more and more true as time went on and more powercreep happened to make campaign/levelling easier and easier
*to the point campaign deliberate was specifically never balanced around twinking in mind, even for veteran or Ultimate

not a requirement either, basic knowledge of what it makes a char powerful/how to string an efficient levelling build together and which items to use/where to obtain them
the first part there’s not really any tools that can help you with, that’s just a games mechanic/experience/build literacy thing that has to be learned or gauged from guides, the other thing grimtools can help you with in a matter of minutes

Did I say that? I’ve known practically from day 1 when I started playing that constitution is next to useless. In general, it only serves to boost how many HP you can regenerate without pots. There’s enough food & such that drops to replenish it that its just a waste to invest anything into it.

I don’t see the point in using an extreme case with that of a player that was part of the game development & probably has spent well over 5k hours playing it in order to make some kind of argument. This is just trolling. When you have such an insane amount of time spent playing the game, you could make any build work.
Like I said, that equipment adds very little armor & damage bonuses, so again, its not the most ideal vs. a streamlined build.

that’s the point, you don’t need 5k hours to use lokar set to 94, Protoss just demonstrates it to the point of making it viable even for HC with his hours/play experience behind it

it’s “ideal” if don’t wanna spend time gathering items during levelling itself, aka twinking, because you can use it all the way through because of its innate stats despite the drawbacks

then why bother mention it in relation to twinking as if it has any bearing or relevance, “when the stat is usesless”? - the item is not “similar” to lokar, if it’s crap/boosts an utterly useless stat/you highlight that stat as an element of comparison between the two items/sets utilities

suppose could say the TLDR/summary is you seem to have a notion of things being more complicated or having higher requirements than there actually is
sorta looping back to Res response of not having to pick everything up to sell, but also not having to hoard every item for alt chars (you could say the game’s limited stash actually discourages hoarding),
and likewise that seem to then transfer to build/char levelling possibly item requirement too, that it’s probably not as demanding or “hard” as you might perceive it to be, with the gist of that then “highlighted” by the lokar not being useable (unless expert) notion

I can honestly say that that set is well worth the trials of obtaining it. You can easily run all of Normal and Epic with it by using good components and additional support armors. Not to mention you can swap set pieces in DC for less of a grind. Try it. It’s a great farm set. Along with the ring/s you get at the start of FG.

Again, you’re talking about other people that have thousands of hours in the game. The Lokar set is only attainable at Ultimate difficulty in Act 6 anyway. I’ve already mentioned how the difficulty of the game was increased to unreasonable levels on Normal mode. So it really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to tell newer players to jump in to Ultimate content and farm gear in order to compensate for what I would call, Crate’s “bait & switch” tactics.

doesn’t require thousands of hours to obtain lokar, so that point doesn’t matter
again it also doesn’t take thousands of hours to be able to play with lokar to 94 - unsure why you’re repeatedly glossing over that basic aspect

which is also not really true, or atleast highly exaggerated - yes early game difficulty got a dmg bump; this is because of the huge player powercreep, so it’s not really as huge as you might claim/think. Objectively there is a difficulty increase compared to before, but also objectively that increase wasn’t really that big.

it makes perfect sense for its specific purpose; faster alt levelling, or rather “fastest” potential alt levelling. You don’t need lokar set for speedlevelling, it just bumps it up that final bit.

what “bait & switch” tactics :rofl:

From the Fangs of Asterkarn expansion announcement:

Sounds like the sort of thing you’re looking for.

I love how some people prefer to discuss their lack of hands rather than playing xD

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Uh? There are so many ways to blitz through all three difficulties with incredibly busted item and mastery combinations. Grasping Vines with Sand Effigy was so disgusting that Zantai removed the flat vitality mod from the lower level versions and that didn’t stopped from still being one of the fastest way to level Shaman builds.

I get for new players it might be harder because you don’t know about these items, but isn’t that the fun part? I would honestly love to forget everything about the game and re-experience everything like it was new because the first playthrough is always the most fun to me.

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