Two Handed Retaliation Warder?

Outside maybe using the Dawnguard set, I think retaliation builds with a shield are far and away the superior choice. In vanilla I tried to make a 2-hand retal build but it failed miserably, maybe with the expansions it can work.

The problem is the devotions. Targo’s Hammer and Stone Form are both chance on block, Shieldmaiden requires a shield, and they add a huge amount. Even with the Dawnshield set it’s better to drop the 2H weapon and use something else instead.

Buttercup: I have 3 pieces of the Mythical Dawnshield, the 2-Handed Axe being one of them, and only 2 pieces of the level 72 version, no weapon though. I notice that the complete set gives +2 to Oathkeeper, yet all of the bonuses seem to be for Soldier and Shaman (Warder). Isn’t Oathkeeper a 1-Handed with a Shield class? Did you make one in the expansions?

Tarazet: I will have to spend some time on GrimTools to see if I can find a non-shield devotion set up. I already copied the shield one. I wish it had more retaliation, but need that defense or it’s splatsville for sure. I notice that most builds only use the 2 piece bonus from the Dawnshield set. At least I have that. Also, what are your thoughts about Dervish Acid Retaliation vs. Warder Lightning Retaliation?

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/nZoJglvV If FS had a retalation damage to attack mod this build could do some things but since then nope, if you go warlord with dawnshield set; you have no RR, if you go warder, you have no retaliation damage to attack and without it there is no point of hitting. So I decided Dawnshield full set is a meme. But https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2dMxA0V this one can work.

Nightblade doesn’t support retaliation very well, it has some bonuses but not a lot of mods for retaliation to attack. Some combination of Shaman, Oathkeeper, Occultist, Soldier for optimal results.

I tried building a full Dawnshield set Archon, but I don’t see the point vs. using Bramblevine. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2dMp0QV <-- abandoned because I couldn’t get the resists straightened out. Conduit can’t roll with vitality res.

fordperfect: That commando looks like it could be fun. I have a rifle one atm in the low 60s. It was my first character actually. I could always swap out the range for some melee. I prefer to play a melee character. Warlord? There is a class combo I haven’t tried yet. I will have to look into that.

Tarazet: I really don’t like the Nightblade. Odd too, I really like playing characters that use 2 1-handers. Yeah, I am still looking into the Soldier/Shaman combo. However, that Warlord link above looked really interesting. Don’t really have an opinion on the Archon. I haven’t looked into that combo as of yet. It is on my maybe list, but I have a few ideas I want to meddle with first.

Than you both for the links. I am building quite a database of potential builds. I guess it’s all up to good old RNGzus to bless me with some nice loots so I can play some real end game content.

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There is only one reasonable point of going 2H melee retaliation build and it is that channeling some of the retaliation damage to your attacks. Since you can’t throw shield, or just wait monsters to kill themselves with 2H, you need auto-attack skills with retaliation damage modifier or direct retaliation damage to attack skill lines. So basically it will be a hybrid build; retaliation and AA. I guess the best AA for that is Righteous Fervor because of Retribition so you gonna have to choose Oathkeeper as main class. I don’t know about other gear that grants retaliation damage to attack modifiers to other skills so you should do your own research. Archon is possible though you might need to play both lightning and fire damage combination since oathkeeper only has fire RR among elementals. Vitality/Acid/Physical your other options. I made that warlord by considering that hardcapped, modified vitality counter strike should deal a huge damage and keep you alive with it’s life leech but that build has got low basic retaliation damage so you may check other vitality retaliation options besides blood knight and you may choose another weapon since it’s acid based.

fordperfect: I read somewhere about someone using a 2-handed lightning based retaliation build and I was interested. Now? The more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards a shield based retaliation build vs. a 2-handed weapon retaliation build. Like Tarazet said, the problem is the devotions. All the good ones require a shield. It would be nice to have a bit more variation for the retaliation build than just damage type.

When I saw Retribution in the Oathkeeper skill tree, I thought about the good old Ret Paladin from WoW. Yup, just need to add the Inquisitor. That really didn’t make any sense to me till I saw that it has 2 auras. That made me think about the Paladin from D2.

Bad enough I decided to make an Acid Dervish shield based retaliation build using the Perdition set. At first it was fun, then it got very boring. Probably since I am using Nightblade (not a fan at all) and that isn’t a sword and board class. No idea why I decided to do that vs. Sentinel.

I guess I could go Sentinel, but I want to use lightning not acid. Plus I keep finding items that buff lightning damage. It doesn’t matter if it’s a common, magic, rare, or legendary item. So, I want to put a use to them some how.

Edit:

I was just messing around with GrimTools. I didn’t do anything with the gear, just the devotions and skill points.

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/4ZDq738N

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As I said, there no such a thing like full retal 2H melee build. I don’t know what devs thought while creating dawnshield set or other retaliation bonussed 2H weapons but any S&B retal or any 2H melee build would outperform something like this; https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YNnOKzd2 It lacks a lot of things, yeah health is good, and yeah counter strike damage would be huge but it’s not enough to sustain the build. The set should give some retaliation damage to attack modifier to atleast make it playable, it need more defensive abilities, it needs life steal or health regen… You can only make a hybrid with some both retal both AA gears.

A 2H devotion map with no Kraken? Bro…

Maybe Fetid Pool? https://www.grimtools.com/calc/0V0a6GJZ

fordperfect: Seems like the case. Bummer too. I like the idea of smashing mobs with a 2-handed weapon and doing damage to them when they hit me. Like you said, a hybrid build and it will be missing a lot of things. I am sure it would be fun to play up to 100 and while I am still looking for loot at 100, just not feasible as an endgame build.

Tarazat: I did look at the Kraken (for the % to all damage) and Affliction (for the fetid pool), but Hyrian (retaliation on attack plus bonus to retaliation damage) caught my eye. I was a horse with blinders on in regards to retaliation damage. Again, just messing around with the GrimTools trying out the constellations that I haven’t used yet. It’s just theory craft right now. Once i get my second character to 100, that may take a while haha, I will work on the retaliation Warder. Of course I will end up with a one hander and a shield, but I want to play the 2-handed build for a while just for kicks and grins.

Edit: I just looked at your GrimTools link. You fit in Kraken AND Affliction? And you still have Vire, Messenger, and Hyrian? WITH A POINT LEFT? WHOAH! That’s cooking with spicy BBQ sauce.

does this count? [1.1.4.2] The Burning Devil Rises - 2H WPS Hybrid Fire Retal Paladin

I feel like you can turn this into melee with some tweeks. brimstone instead of hellborne. retal rings, remove hydra to something else and change inqusitor to maybe soldier?

something like this maybe? I was too lazy to build it from the begining https://www.grimtools.com/calc/JVl59EXZ

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Very nice synergistic use of Honor!

Seems the build is still alive: [1.1.7.1] The Burning Devil Returns

I tried the same idea with dreeglanore didnt work btw. Just giving heads up. I was obssessed with 2 handers

I don’t have the expansions :frowning:
However I seriously don’t know what Dawnguard set’s deal is.
It uses a 2 hander, but no bonuses to Savagery, Primal Strike or anything that works well with 2H weapons. It boosts retaliation but has no support for Oathkeeper outside of the +2 to All Skills with full set (which does not really solve anything, since Oathkeeper tends to lean more towards fire/acid retal than lightning). It has bonuses for Grasping Vines, which is one of the worst skills in the game IMO, even with retal added (it also does bleed/Phys damage, Dawnguard supports lightning). I really don’t know. :confused:

A rough outline warder version of my conjurer gt
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/lNk59EvV

Original build… https://www.grimtools.com/calc/nZoJpokV which is about 5:30ish crucible clear

Drakhan: I have been curious about the Grim Dawn Paladin and how to go about building and playing one. It seems more like a Geomancer to me. Never in a million years did I think about a Ranged Pally. Looking at that so called Paladin in that link, looks nothing like a Paladin. Nothing. At. All. Second link, no pic. However, I do have that mythical weapon in my stash. Sooooo, I think I will give that build a shot and see what is what.

Tarazet: Man, I can’t wait to get out of this 105-115k dps slump. That 173 looks nice, especially for range. I can’t wait for my Rifle Commando to get there. But first I need some heavy blessings from good ol’ RNGzus.

Buttercup: Ashes is a fun expansion pack for the continued story and 3-5 levels per difficulty as you hike your way to level 100. The monster and quest experience is a lot better than Forgotten, especially if you have the 100% experience potion from the same expansion. Not hard to get exalted either.

Plus, imho, the story in Forgotten is weak (clearly anti-religion, very ‘agenda’ if you know what I mean) and doesn’t take place in the original map area. It needs a separate box pasted on the original map, talk about laziness. It only counts as half an expansion as far as I am concerned. Also, I am not a fan of Shattered Realms. I would rather play the separate pay DL content, Crucible.

As far as the Dawnguard set goes? Seems like fordperfect said it best… “So I decided Dawnshield full set is a meme”. Sounds about right, yeah? Especially the +2 bonus to Oathkeeper skills? HUH?

Valinov: I have 3/5 pieces of that set, one of them is the weapon. I don’t have a Warder made tho. Maybe I should make one and then put it on stand by at level 94 till I get all of the pieces of the set. With my luck I will find all of the supplemental pieces before I find the last 2 to Dawnguard anyway.

General question: Why do so many items have +1-2 (class) skill points on items that seem clearly intended for another class? Was that from a patch? Was that from the start of the game? Base Game? First Expansion? Second Expansion?

Oathkeeper is the class they introduced with FG, so no, they actually did intend it to be a Paladin / Archon set. But the builders had other ideas when they saw what the numbers actually looked like.

Hello babe. I had nothing else to do and made this for you.
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2dMe0GV

It uses 2 pieces of Dawnbreaker for more flat lightning retal instead of 300% dmg bonus from full Dawnguard set.
Main dmg active skill is Blitz which has high weapon dmg and 18% rata via medal as well as debuffing DA.
Savagery only for utility. Storm touched enhances lightning retal and provides flat electrocute for Blitz.
Grasping vines and its node get bonuses from the gear so they are 1 pointers. The node gets softcapped so its a freebie aoe skill with rata.

So yeah… I’ll have to try this sometime later. I want to play a Warder.
If you decide to try it out, let us know how it went.

Mondaqueras: Thanks, I added it to my ever growing database of character builds. I just started leveling a Warder this morning. I wish I had more loot for it in my stash, but at least I have a few set pieces and weapons to tie me over for a while. I will take a break from it every once in a while to play my my main so I can get more loot.

So far I have just 3 / 5 pieces. I am sure I will find duplicates before I finish the set or up to the 4pc bonus and of course I will cherry pick the better one.

I have a few partial sets that boost Lightning damage, but not the one you have in your GrimTools link.