Great initiative. The order sometimes varies on mob kills but overall this can help people
In wave 166 Father Kymon can spawn,he’s got stackable DA debuff,so you need to burst him down quickly.Shar Zul spawns fire tornado with RR and my plan is to quickly kill these mobs.If you play spamming caster you need to avoid Grava disrupt.
That? Must have been a typo… 
@Reaper+Moose example. You prefer rushing moose but I think it’s better to kill Reaper first. Reaper usually spawns bottom left, which means inside banner range and Moose is usually on the other side. Once you rush moose outside banner and kill him, it means you have to kill reaper outside banner which loses time. I think it’s really just a case to case basis and only experience will tell you which route is better.
I rephrased that. That’s not what I meant. I didn’t mean rushing Moose over Reaper every time is the answer.
What I meant is in an abstract scenario where you stand between Moose and Reaper, choosing Moose will result in a faster clear because Reaper will close in on his own. People instinctively go for Reaper first because he’s a bigger threat. In speedrunning the biggest threat is the timer - I included this example to point out that this shift in mentality is necessary to achieve top speeds.
In a real run in 170 I will damage Reaper by the banner some and then leave him and jump Moose so that what’s left of Reaper dies from AoE while I’m already focusing on Moose.
@159. If you move just a little bit to the upper right, Ilgorr 1st form just dies to a hiccup and there’s a higher chance you won’t worry about losing time to him.
Good point. Starting 159 closer to top-right as an anti-Igorr strategy. I never did that, honestly. It actually can be a superior strategy because you can also finish the wave closer to bottom-left where you usually wanna be for nemesis waves. Will update op with this.
@163. On caster builds (which is what I mostly play nowadays) I like rushing top left, drop 1 spell (ideally something that sticks like RE or BWC) then run right where I will be able to check what’s there without running too far away, then decide if I need to rush that side (healers) or go straight to the three stooges (non-healer spawn).
Hmm… Another one I’ve never tried. But in theory, what’s the point in pea-shooting top-left? Guys from top-left never have a problem with aggro.
@165. There’s that girl on top right with a disengage, you want her back facing banner side so when she does the backstep you won’t chase her to outside banner range (and farther than Shar’zul next wave).
Thx for correction. I didn’t include all the FG alternative spawns. Will correct.
Thx for correction. Kymon indeed spawns in place of Lucius. But I never factor him as a risk in speed runs on top tier builds. On mid tier I would probably try to avoid Kymon’s leap - it is deadly with the 1,000,000 da shred.
I still haven’t done this on AA builds that don’t have AOE (i.e Deathmarked) cause I don’t play them but this could be very effective on Dervish.
Hmm… Another one I’ve never tried. But in theory, what’s the point in pea-shooting top-left? Guys from top-left never have a problem with aggro.
I usually finish 162 near banner on MQ spawns or south on amalgamation spawns. IDK if it’s a screen size issue but I could never see the top right spawn unless I run further top right near the spawn point which means I have to run back again to center if there are no healers. Going top left first I feel like I’m closer to center if the healers aren’t there and peashotting that portion gives enough time for the top right spawn can aggro me so I don’t run too far away from banner range.
Or at least that’s what I feel happens during a run. Do note that I’m biased towards AOE caster builds, especially RE cause that’s my most played build for like the past few weeks.
Thanks, this looks like a solid guide!
I’d add a small note on wave 163: if you’re playing a ranged build, don’t sit in the Council’s 44% damage reduction pools. You can afford to take a step or two in exchange for half your damage output.
Isn’t it 35%? Anyway this seems like a good advice but if you spend more than 35% time moving away from the range of their debuffs (which are autoattacks so they spam them all the time) then it’s not worth it. Besides, ranged builds are often inquisitor builds that use Storm Spread - shotgun than works best at melee range. You can also lose Censure’s range. Etc.
IMO best strategy is simple: kill the healers and facetank it. There are zero problems with aggro in this wave so no need to complicate it.
I am interested in this as well.
What I do is basically: 1) Pick Crucible of the Dead. It is the best map choice for us.
2) Place the Vanguard banner in Bottom-Left corner. Skip this part if you don’t use banners.
3) Get your blessings. Skip this part too if you don’t use blessings.
4) Camp the Bottom-Left Spawn. Most of the things that you want dead ASAP, spawn here.
5) On wave 154, kill Kubacabra first if playing with blessings & banner. If not, then take care to avoid his blood pools and you may want to focus on other bosses first and leave him for last.
6) On wave 159, always kill Sentinel first. He is the one that causes the most problems for pet builds.
7) On wave 161, head to Top-Right Spawn and kill the Healers that spawn here. If Aleksander comes to you before you can kill them, then quickly run to the Bottom-Left Spawn and fight and kill him there. It will take a while for the healers to get there, so you should have plenty of time.
8) On wave 163, head to Top-Left and then lure the spawns to Mid if playing with Banner or just fight and kill them at their spawn if not. While fighting the 3 Bosses in the middle, remember to take out the Healers first. Otherwise they will heal the Bosses quite alot, making the wave last too long.
9) On wave 167, head to Top-Left and kill the boss’s first form ASAP. Try to take out his second form before wave 168 starts for an easier time.
10) On wave 169, stay within the banner radius and focus Theodin/Korvaak first. If playing without banner, then take care to not lose your pets to Anasteria. You may need to use the pet attack command a bit to reposition your pets and to make them focus on a particular enemy. Here the important point is to kill Theodin/Korvaak before wave 170, meaning you need to kill both their forms ASAP. Otherwise, you will have to face their second form along with whatever spawns on the next wave.
11) On wave 170, go back to Bottom-Left and kill whatever spawns there. Then just kill the other 3 however you want. Just take care not to die to Aleksander’s Aether meteors to the face.
12) Collect your loot, speak to Lokarr and go for round 2.
Bu that is probably not the most efficient way.
1 Like
@ Maya
I haven’t played pets for a long time. Actually, not since the first nerfs to Witching Hour and Voidwhisper rings. And the nerf to Bysmiel’s Will. But I don’t thing strategies differ all that much.
The big thing for speedrunning pets is the question of using pet attack vs. not using it. You can sort of switch between AoE and single target at will.
Another thing is aggro. Piloting pets in speedruns is all about the making sure you don’t aggro too much. As soon as the biggies start chasing you your DPS goes down the drain.
Another thing is that enemy AoE hurts. Skele builds in particular need a completely different set of strategies.
Point 7) Killing healers in their spawn zone in 161 is ok but might result in anchoring you to an out-of-banner-range spot. I prefer rushing to Alex and killing healers once they get close, on pets too.
Point 8) I must be missing something here because 1x also said he starts 163 with top-left. I got no idea why anyone would be doing that. Did you guys mean top-RIGHT?
Point 9) Not sure why anyone would rush to kill Karroz in 167. He’s 100% inconsequential, imo. It’s basically a trash wave. I just stick to a spot that optimizes aggro and treat Karroz like another ranged hero.
Point 10) With pets I would wanna make sure to finish 168 as close to bottom-right as possible and kill Ana right away in her spawn zone. Losing pets is not good for the timer. Then single target Korvak/Theo (Theo actually strong - especially against skeles), Fleshie/Drav, Fatsos.
Point 12) You don’t need to collect loot. Just opening the chests is enough. The loot stays.
I simply don’t use pet attack anymore. As Sig pointed out to me a few months ago, pet attack makes the most difference in Skeleton builds and if you can’t use it properly, it actually ends up reducing your dps (save for certain things that you want to focus)
Also, I aggro everything and play like pre nerf Binders :p. Tanky spec for the win 
On 7, sometimes I get healers that hide behind stuff and I miss them. Hence why. Damn those guys can be a pain. Also, I do my runs without GrimInternals for some reason.
-
Nope, Top Left. Atleast in my case. Mostly because sometimes they just run into banner range without me having to move away from there and by the time the 3 guys spawn in the middle, all of them are neatly stacked in the middle area and get wiped out rather quickly. Sometimes I also go with bottom-right.
-
He has Mindcontrol. Dangerous for pet builds.
-
I often find that Korvaak skips into 170 simply because of how long his death animations are. I hate it
-
Ah, I forgot about that. I blame GDStash
Maya, I think you’re describing normal pet crucible strategy more than speedrun strategy, even if that strategy yields the best (or close) results with most pet builds.
I agree with most of the points you listed. I do a few things slightly different so I’ll list those here for completeness:
- wave 154: I start with the trash mobs in the lower right because the FG mobs include a couple of healers. They typically die around the same time Kuba leaves his starting postion and comes into range of the banner anyway.
- wave 167: I start with the lower left and then move to the middle. As soon as Karroz comes into banner range (sometimes before I get to the middle) I switch focus to him and kill him.
- wave 169: I start with the lower left. You can usually kill Kreig/Dravos before anything else gets into banner range. I then go for whoever is in range, prioritizing Theodin, Ana, Korvaak.
The above is for general play though, not speedrunning (meaning builds that can hope to get 5:30 or below). Optimal pet piloting strategy changes as your clear speed increases. I suspect as you get closer to 5 minute runs, that stategy converges with non-pet builds, because at that point you’re killing things very very quickly and the biggest time difference is how quickly you can get to everything.
Here are a few of the things that change for me as clear times increase:
- When builds get typical clear speeds faster than ~6:30, I start rush Aleks on wave 161 instead of starting with the healers.
- When builds get typical clear speeds faster than ~5:30, I start to focus my player efforts on drawing enemies to the center as fast as possible. I make sure my pets are always doing something, but I try to move around a bit, getting a little closer to each spawn location to ensure they come at me as fast as possible.
- When builds get typical clear times faster than ~5:00, I start drawing nems to the center on 160/170 to kill them all at once instead of trying to take out the lower left nem before everything else engages.
As for usage of “pet attack”, it varies from build to build, based on both pets and power. Pets tend to naturally spread out and attack a lot of different targets. This can be useful because it acts like AoE and it does a good job killing trash that is spread out. Using “Pet attack” can cause your pets to spend time running to a new location instead of attacking, which is not what you want. That said, you don’t want them to waste time attacking the targets that you don’t need to kill to end the wave, like the Carnivous plants that Ugdenbog Overgrowths spawn. It’s worth using pet attack to get them focused on real targets again.
I also use it a bit to focus on specific high value targets, and on waves with a lot of trash I generally rush my pets to the center at the beginning of the wave so AoE can hit as many things as possible.
There are a lot of other pet attack subtleties that you sort of pick up over time. Like it’s often best to target them at something in the middle or back of a pack. If you go for ones in the front you lose out on a lot of your AoE.
But yeah, overuse of pet attack will lower your clear times. Optimal use will shave a couple of seconds here or there, but the difference is not enormous.
2 Likes
Lol, back in the day when 95% pet builds had double Familiars and Skeletons felt naked without Flame Torrent, ground->enemy double pet attack routine was a must. In crucible, as pointed out by Sigatrev, it’s better not to use it outside priority targets.
- He has Mindcontrol. Dangerous for pet builds.
Right. I forgot. Sentinel, too.
- I often find that Korvaak skips into 170 simply because of how long his death animations are. I hate it
Which is why I suggest eliminating Ana quickly before anyone is in range and then turning all your cannons against Korvaak so that he doen’t have time to turn. He turns = no record.
Yes, makes sense (And I forgot Dravis, he is kind of annoying in 169 compared to Krieg imo)
Thx. I edited the guide a little to include advice from the comments.
I hoped for pet players to contribute because pets have almost always been the one to own crucible speedrunning.
with the new patch. What curcible map is the best?
Crucible of Dead is usually the fastest and most convenient for speed farming. I haven’t heard anything, that changes the situation.
1 Like
only ask. cause after the patch you can choose your start map :))
Yeah, that saves me lot of time trying to hit CoD. But Deeps is also decent. I don’t have much experience with others.
Legion is best for beginners if you don’t care for speed followed by Deeps. Sands has a good range of tricks you can use but it’s weird. Death is most popular among the elite because 1) it’s fast, 2) still has some tricks and 3) people basically learned to play it by heart (like I would have no idea how to play Deeps right now). Actually, Void offers potentially faster runs, and I’ve seen some people use it to showcase, but it’s just dark and you can’t see anything.
Also, I’d like to point out that in the last patch many strategies in this guide were rendered obsolete for all but the most op builds. You should focus on isolating, blocking off and positioning instead of hoarding. Zantai evidently does not want the game to be played like I described here.
2 Likes
Ui. What changed? Crucible got harder? Or what?
Yes. As a sum of individual buffs to certain enemies (especially Fabius and other vanilla nemeses) as well as a few nerfs to many builds across the spectrum (Bloodied Crystal nerf, oathkeeper and nightblade mastery nerfs, etc.) and many individual builds previously holding records (Venomblade, Deathmarked, Ulzuin, Pyran) crucible got harder. With some exceptions of course as - ironically - sorcerers started to beat all time records this patch.
So for many builds the strategy of greedily hoarding enemies into one spot to maximize your AoE - as described here - need to make way for more conservative strategies of isolating enemies and dealing with the biggest threats first.
1 Like