Ultimate Guide To Crucible Speedrunning - CoD 3b/VB Edition

INTRO

Personally, I’m not among the best crucible speed runners there are. I’m more of a fanboy. But after watching and analyzing many runs by the legends of the genre such as Shoot, John_Smith, Sigatrev, Mercymaker, Reymreym, Superfluff, Plasmodermic and others (ofc I’m guilty of omission) as well as, with no false modesty, dabbling in a few record runs myself, I feel qualified to write a few words about it.

If you are an advanced player, a builder or a tester, and you want those sub 6 minute runs on the builds that deserve them, this guide is for you. First, some general advice will be given. Then, all waves from 151 to 170 will be broken down and different strategies will be analyzed in order to assure optimal clears by wasting the least possible time on every action and at every step.

I’m planning on adding a chapter on mutators, too.

SPEEDRUNNING IN A PILL

Speedrunning crucible boils down to five things: 1) having a top-tier build and optimizing it for crucible, 2) optimizing dmg output of your AoE by skillful piloting, 3) optimizing aggro by skillful piloting and 4) having a good PC, 5) RNG - mutators and enemy combos.

  1. Optimizing a build for crucible - despite a common misconception - does not necessarily mean putting everything in offense. Although some builds like old Agrivix allowed for things like 100% spirit dump (and that’s before spirit and cunning gave health) and could easily clear 170 in sub 5-minute times with as low as 2.3 da, this is not the case for most top tier builds. Solid defense is essential not only not to die but to never have to give an inch by being able to facetank everything at all times due to the fact that we’ll be putting ourselves in harm’s way intentionally. With a slight exception of Wind Devil builds and a few others there is no room for a millisecond of kiting in speedrun crucible.

  2. This means skillful manipulating the mobs and prioritizing targets so that you spend most time surrounded by the largest number of enemies possible so that you deal dmg to them all at the same time.

  3. The biggest problem in achieving record times is aggro. Enemies in crucible do not always aggro all at once. Sometimes they get stuck and don’t come out of their spawn zones. Sometimes weird things happen with AI. This is imo the biggest obstacle and the hardest one to overcome. In part, it’s rng. But there are ways to minimize it and even eliminate it entirely. Sadly, it all boils down to knowing all the waves by heart. What really helps with aggro problems is big AoE casts with long range (Blackwater Cocktail, Canister Bomb, Stormfire) - you throw/shoot them at the spawn zone which should aggro everyone inside.

  4. Unfortunately, having decent hardware might be more or less necessary. However, due to some engine issues with core affinities (I’m not very familiar) GD has been known to hiccup even on very good gaming PCs. I recommend lowering the graphics, especially particle density and effects.

  5. Sadly (for speedrunners) GD is an RNG-heavy game. Mutators are everything. With bad mutators you won’t break any records. See this rant thread for a list of the most annoying ones: Petition to tone down mutators. Suffice to say, most speedrunners don’t even bother running with bad mutators with Shattered and resistance boosts to enemies at the top of the list.

Some GENERAL ADVICE

I

According to rule 2) from the previous paragraph we want to be dealing as much dmg as possible to as many tagets at the same time as possible, and as often as possible. In order to ensure that, we have utilize movement. Not only our own movement but also enemy movement. Thus, our priority targets are:

  1. Ranged targets. Example. In an abstract scenario, you got Janaxxia and Stone Basilisk away from each other. Who to attack first? Janaxxia. Becasue attacking Basilisk first will result in having to kill two targets separately (Janaxxia is ranged so she will not close in by herself). Conversely, attacking Janaxxia first will results in Basilisk joining in and taking AoE dmg. *

  2. Slow targets. Example. In an abstract situation you got Reaper and Moose standing in some distance between each other. Who is it better to attack first? Just as in example 1), it’s better to attack Moose becasue Reaper will join very quickly and take AoE dmg. *

* these are abstract scenarios, in real runs prioritizing targets depends on many factors, not only enemy run speed and being ranged or melee.

  1. Healers. Self explanatory. The only exception is 161 when you sometimes manage to kill Alex before the healers have time to close in and cast.

  2. Targets with strong offensive debuffs. This is mainly Grava’Thul but

II

When surrounded you also want to prioritize targets. If you’re piloting a melee build or AAR, for example, you’ll be dealing lots of AoE but you still gotta choose your single target that gets most of it. We choose the target with most health/biggest resistance.

III

Grim Internals is an absolute must imo. You need to see all surrounding enemies hp. However, it’s best not to overdo it on statistics display especially DPS counter - it slows down your PC a lot.

What is a STANDARD CRUCIBLE RUN?

This guide below is for runs that I call STANDARD CRUCIBLE RUNS 3+1 (which fell out of meta somewhere around 1.1.5.0). That means taking 3 blessings: Blessing of Ulo (for better resistance overcaps), Empyrion’s Guidance (for health) and Might of Amatok (for better offense). The 4th blessing - Ulzuin’s Pact - as it’s mostly taken by builds that struggle with energy but it’s also very useful due to its bonuses to core stats. However, using only 3 blessings allows for resetting your tribute counter to 100 after three runs.

It also means taking Vanguard Banner (for better offense) and placing it in the bottom-left corner of the stage. This has been long proved to be the optimal placing of the Vanguard Banner in the Crucible of Death. I had a discussion lately with another player if it is not time to change this to top-right due to the recent changes in FG (read: healers in 163) but, in short, no. Bottom-left still.

EDIT: Currently (1.1.5.2) the most popular way is 4+3 or 3+4 (number of blessings + number of lvl1 Storm Beacons).

WAVES

This chapter will include a breakdown of noteworthy enemies in each wave and a short description of strategies that will often lead to optimal clears. However, crucible is still rng. There are mutators. AI screws up. 163 can go south even with the best build. Therefore, this is more of a set of guidelines. Top notch piloting requires reacting to changing conditions. There is no guide to that.

151

Start the wave by rushing to bottom-left to dispose of the Ugdengolems. They move slowly so - unless you got DoTs - it’s best to make sure they’re all dead before moving on. Then, I like to go north to kill the mobs there, make a curve through the middle killing the plants and finish up with the ranged mobs (ghosts) close to the bottom-right banner spot. This is where we want to finish the wave.

152

Caraxxus Foul/Fleshweaver Krieg from bottom-right.

  1. Aggro Fleshwiever. 2) Kill the crabs from top-let (they got a nasty skill disruption debuff). 3) Kill the Basilisks from (they got heal on death). 4) As soon as Fleshweaver is in the banner range we jump him and kill him fast. By the time he’s dead everyone else also should be so.

If it’s Caraxxus then either ignore him and kill stuff from top to bottom (he fast so he’ll always follow wherever you go and die of collateral) or kill him fast before disruptive Crabs or healing Basilisks close in.

153

Trash wave.

Stand in the middle and let them come. But we want to make sure everyone aggroes and keep a bit to the left at first rather than right. Top-right and bottom-right spawn zones often produce ranged heroes. We want them moving towards the middle rather than standing there and shooting outside the banner range.

154

Kuba/Kaisan from bottom-left, Father Kymon/Bloodlord Thalonis from top-left and Gabal’Thun from top-right.

The first “serious” wave. If it’s Bloodlord, stay 3-4m below to the banner and mash Kuba for a while until Bloodlord gets in the banner range. Then blink to Bloodlord. The others are fast so they will follow.

155

Allostria/Ishtal from top-right and Keeper of Burwitch from top-left.

Go far to bottom-left and clear the trash there, looking at the minimap to see when Allostria is in the banner range. She’s ranged so she won’t move in unless you’re far enough. Then blink her and kill her first form, switch to the Keeper and you’re done. Don’t kill Allostria’s second form. If it’s Ishtal kill his first form fast before he multiplies.

156

Two coven witches, Larria from bottom and Janaxxia from top-left, and Stone Basilisk from top-right.

The trick is to stay low south to aggro Janaxxia to banner range (she’s ranged so you can’t cross the banner latitude or she’ll not come close enough) but don’t go too far to the left so that she doesn’t go behind the NPC podium wall. Kill Larria, blink to Janaxxia, kill her and the Basilisk and clean up trash.

Also, you try try to find a sweet spot at the edge of banner range to provoke Laria to teleport there.


157

Trash wave.

Strategy similar to 153.

158

Another trash wave.

You wanna finish the wave close to the bottom-left spawn zone.

159

Boss wave: Sentinel from bottom-left, Avris Marrowill/Magrus the Rotting from bottom-right, Lunar’Valgoth from top-left, Igorr/Venarius the Backbreaker/Tomb Guardians from top-right and Okaloth the Messenger/Ekket’Zul from the middle.

Here, the strategies differ due to how different the enemy combos can be. I usually mash Sentinel far to the left so that ranged Avris gets in the banner range and blink her as soon as she moves in. The rest should be already on you. Problem is the slow Igorr. As soon as you see him blink him and kill his first form. The remaining bosses are fast so it’s not a huge waste of time to leave them unfinished.

Or you can start from top-left and make a curve along the edge of banner space down to Avris. Killing her last there lets you start the wave close to bottom-left which is where you wanna be.

Alternative strategy (thx to 1x) is to try and start this wave close to top-right in order to be able to quickly dispose of Igorr’s first form, quickly blink back to banner range and make a curve south -> south-west -> west while killing everything. This way we can start nemesis wave 160 near the banner which is where we wanna be.

160

Nemesis wave: 2 non-vanilla, 1 vanilla and Galakros the Mountain/The Steward.

The strategy in nemesis waves is hard to break down. Generally try to stay near the bottom-left spawn zone and hope that most nemeses are the fast ones. If there’s Moose or Zantarin keep fighting whoever comes near, and as soon as Zant or Moose get close enough change target and jump them instead (so the fast ones folllow).

It’s good to finish the round as close to Lokarr as possible.

161

Aleksander from bottom-left, Handarroth from bottom-right and healers from top-right.

The correct strategy is to rush to Alex and try to kill him before the healers close in. For some reason since the release of FG, Alex very often gets a weird tankiness buff in this wave. Sometimes he can’t be killed quickly enough even by the most powerful builds. If you see that you can’t finish him up and healers are already in banner range, blink them, kill them, and clean up.

162

Mad Queen/Amalgation from bottom-right, Ollivioth from top-right. EDIT: since 1.1.3.1 it’s only Mad Queen, no Amalgation.

You wanna start this wave close to bottom-right due to Amalgation being slow and retarted with aggro. In and out to aggro Amalgation. If it’s MQ then great. Move to the middle and AoE everyone.

Be careful with MQ. She can take out the toughest.

163

The Fucken Trio wave. EDIT: since 1.1.3.1 there are no healers in this wave (but there are Basilisks so strategy is more or less the same - check for Basilisks and try to kill them first)

Strategy here is debatable. There is a big chance that healers spawn from top-right and heal-on-death basilisks from bottom-right. What I do is I check for the healers first. If it’s no healers then I get back to the middle and try to finish the basilisks first, then the Trio. If it’s the healers, then I like to blink beneath the banner trying to dmg anyone while waiting for the healers move in to banner range. Then I blink back, kill them and finish up the Trio. This wave is very important for speed runs.

Also, some top runners prefer to rush to top-right and dispose of whatever comes out of there first in case they are healers. To make it work you gotta finish 162 close to top-right.

164

Terrnox from top-left and Valaxteria from top-right.

Repeat the strategy from wave 155 (with Allostria): rush to bottom-left spawn zone to aggro ranged Valaxteria to banner range, blink her asap and AoE. Terrnox follows. As soon as Valaxteria is dead everything else should also be so.

Alternative strategy by Shoot: exit banner range and rush Valaxteria first.

165

Non-vanilla nemesis from bottom-left, vanilla nemesis from bottom-right, Namadea the Screecher/Sister Crimson from top-right and Bargoll/Brother Segarius from top-left.

Strategy depends on the nemeses. Prioritize the slowest one as soon as they are in banner range. Also, if you roll Kymon’s siblings, have them between you and the banner when you fight them so that they don’t disengage far outside banner range (thx to 1x).

166

Shar’Zul from bottom-left, Commander Lucius/Father Kymon from top-left and Alkamos from top-right.

Aggro Shar’Zul to the banner meridian. This is important becasue if you fight him in his spawn zone, Lucius will aggro to the NPC podium (similarly to two Coven witches from 156). As soon as you see Lucius in banner range leave Shar’Zul and blink Lucius. Alkamos should already be there, too. Kill all three and clean up trash.

167

Karroz from top-left.

Another trash wave where you aggro top-right and stick to the middle on the leftish side of things.

If you’re pets start the wave as close to Karroz as possible and kill him ASAP. He got mind control. (thx to Maya)

168

Trash wave that got no love from the owners of slower PCs. Strategy identical to 167 and other trash waves. This one you want to finish close to bottom-left.
[b]

169[/b]

Fleshwiever/Dravis from bottom-left, Theodinn/Korvaak from top-left, Anasteria from bottom-right and Rodalgar+Hagalvar from top-right.

The strategy for this wave has been a subject of many discussions even before FG and the introduction of Korvaak.

Some prefer to fight it out in the middle.

I prefer to dispose of Fleshwiever/Dravis fin his spawn zone first (no risk of Theo/Korv getting stuck on the podium), jump to Anasteria and hope it’s not Korvaak. If its Korvaak drop everything and burst him before he transforms. Fatsos die of collateral.

170

Nemesis wave: non-vanilla from bottom-left and right, vanilla from top-left and right.

The strategy is similar to 160. Because non-vanilla nemeses are usually faster, we stay south at first and dmg them as much as we can and then we jump north to the slow vanilla nemesis and let the fast ones follow. It’s important not to hesitate to leave banner range, even with southern nemeses still unfinished, especially with Zantarin and Moose.

EXAMPLE:

Here is a pretty solid sub 5-minute run that exemplifies most of the above strategies. Note my errors:

  • In general, I kept underestimating my DoTs. A few times I didn’t have to stay with the enemies as long as I did.

  • In 165, I delayed jumping Zantarin who was stuck in bottom-right. On this build with very good DoT I didn’t have to stay with Alex to the end.

  • I didn’t finish 162 close to top-right to do the “healer check.” And in 163, I didn’t kill Basilisks first. I hoped they wouldn’t die and heal the Trio. They did, and twice.

  • In 170, I stayed with the Reapers too long. I should have moved north as soon as they were 40-50% health.

These errors amounted to the loss of about 10 or more seconds.

OUTRO

I hope this guide helps the aspiring new builders and brings attestation to the noble art of crucible speedrunning. Crucible has always been, is and always will be the ultimate measure of a build’s strength and a pilot’s abilities in Grim Dawn.

If there are any errors in the breakdown of enemies please don’t hesitate to comment. Also, all comments and alternative strategies are welcome. Thank you for reading.

5 Likes

Woah, great guide, dude. I would definitely stress having a good PC here. Some people with slower pc’s might be disappointed once they achieve perfect piloting form but their timers would still be way below average. It could be up to a minute difference especially on specs with a lot of fireworks.

I would recommend stickying this guide, it’s a pretty cool one. I would also advice you to include some screenshots, format videos in a [youtube]part of the link [/yotube] way, and warn players about mutators. Some mutators will just shit on your run, no matter how good you or your build are.

And yes, I think 3 blessings + 1 VG is still the golden standard to measure most builds (just health and mana potions allowed).

Really nice guide ya!

My ideas are in 152 I rushed to kill heroes that casts the ground damage,cause if you can’t kill Foul/Krieg in time whole area will be green:D.Wave 161 Alex get tankiness,no actually is the Golem with defender trait,that goes in range affects Alex survivability.On 169 I often rush Ana and then fatsos.I prefer to leave Korvaak alive in 170,than Anasteria to bomb with RR debuff.Korvaak animation is slow,so you can kill 1 or 2 Nemesis util he spawns back.

Btw a little off-topic,what’s considered slow PC?
I feel like losing 30 seconds at least through lag just recording and some more by just playing.My fps between waves is 2-3 and in 168 for example is 10.

@ Mad_Lee

Thanks. I added some information according to your advice. I’m not really familiar with editing videos or making gifs. It would be cool but the full run I attached will have to suffice for now.

@Nery

In 169, rushing Ana outside banner range is the safe option.

In 161, Alex get sturdy right from the start before he’s in range of any golems which are slow. It must be something else. But I don’t know.

10 fps in the middle of 168 is not that bad. I’m not sure if I get that much on low graphics. The crucible lag is mostly due to CPU problems, not GPU, afaik. It’s when you lose ~0.5s on loading waves. Multiply that by 20 and you’re 10 seconds down. But I’m not sure about this.

It makes sense explanation about lag.My VC is at least not that bad.Processor is ancient 2.2 GhZ Intel dual core.Plus while am recording always in red temperature,howling sound from inside,processor is trying to commit suicide:D

As for Alex wave maybe Golem has enough range to cover bottom right to to the bottom left in Crucible of dead or is something else.Is worth trying of it’s killed,does Alex dies quickly.But even with insane racial damage he’s not that quick.

Great guide, great run.
As I really need some pointer for doing banner cruci run, so thanks for this!

EDIT: Also, this guide need some help on pet player. They may have some different strategies on how to do cruci run.

Hey. I’m not sure why I’m in the credits. The only times I did sub 6mins were with totally broken builds (old binder and retal DE) :p. These days I’m satisfied with 6 mins with the builds I do, tho I’m not sure if that kinda timing also translates to other people playing the builds I post. Anyway, I still have some comments tho I’m not sure how valid these will be on the sub-6 and especially the sub-5 min build runs.

@Reaper+Moose example. You prefer rushing moose but I think it’s better to kill Reaper first. Reaper usually spawns bottom left, which means inside banner range and Moose is usually on the other side. Once you rush moose outside banner and kill him, it means you have to kill reaper outside banner which loses time. I think it’s really just a case to case basis and only experience will tell you which route is better.

@152. If it’s Caraxxus I just rush everything and kill him last. Sometimes he heals if you don’t burst him fast enough and it loses time.

@159. If you move just a little bit to the upper right, Ilgorr 1st form just dies to a hiccup and there’s a higher chance you won’t worry about losing time to him.

@163. On caster builds (which is what I mostly play nowadays) I like rushing top left, drop 1 spell (ideally something that sticks like RE or BWC) then run right where I will be able to check what’s there without running too far away, then decide if I need to rush that side (healers) or go straight to the three stooges (non-healer spawn).

@165. There’s that girl on top right with a disengage, you want her back facing banner side so when she does the backstep you won’t chase her to outside banner range (and farther than Shar’zul next wave).

Great initiative. The order sometimes varies on mob kills but overall this can help people

In wave 166 Father Kymon can spawn,he’s got stackable DA debuff,so you need to burst him down quickly.Shar Zul spawns fire tornado with RR and my plan is to quickly kill these mobs.If you play spamming caster you need to avoid Grava disrupt.

That? Must have been a typo… :stuck_out_tongue:

@Reaper+Moose example. You prefer rushing moose but I think it’s better to kill Reaper first. Reaper usually spawns bottom left, which means inside banner range and Moose is usually on the other side. Once you rush moose outside banner and kill him, it means you have to kill reaper outside banner which loses time. I think it’s really just a case to case basis and only experience will tell you which route is better.

I rephrased that. That’s not what I meant. I didn’t mean rushing Moose over Reaper every time is the answer.

What I meant is in an abstract scenario where you stand between Moose and Reaper, choosing Moose will result in a faster clear because Reaper will close in on his own. People instinctively go for Reaper first because he’s a bigger threat. In speedrunning the biggest threat is the timer - I included this example to point out that this shift in mentality is necessary to achieve top speeds.

In a real run in 170 I will damage Reaper by the banner some and then leave him and jump Moose so that what’s left of Reaper dies from AoE while I’m already focusing on Moose.

@159. If you move just a little bit to the upper right, Ilgorr 1st form just dies to a hiccup and there’s a higher chance you won’t worry about losing time to him.

Good point. Starting 159 closer to top-right as an anti-Igorr strategy. I never did that, honestly. It actually can be a superior strategy because you can also finish the wave closer to bottom-left where you usually wanna be for nemesis waves. Will update op with this.

@163. On caster builds (which is what I mostly play nowadays) I like rushing top left, drop 1 spell (ideally something that sticks like RE or BWC) then run right where I will be able to check what’s there without running too far away, then decide if I need to rush that side (healers) or go straight to the three stooges (non-healer spawn).

Hmm… Another one I’ve never tried. But in theory, what’s the point in pea-shooting top-left? Guys from top-left never have a problem with aggro.

@165. There’s that girl on top right with a disengage, you want her back facing banner side so when she does the backstep you won’t chase her to outside banner range (and farther than Shar’zul next wave).

Thx for correction. I didn’t include all the FG alternative spawns. Will correct.

Thx for correction. Kymon indeed spawns in place of Lucius. But I never factor him as a risk in speed runs on top tier builds. On mid tier I would probably try to avoid Kymon’s leap - it is deadly with the 1,000,000 da shred.

I still haven’t done this on AA builds that don’t have AOE (i.e Deathmarked) cause I don’t play them but this could be very effective on Dervish.

Hmm… Another one I’ve never tried. But in theory, what’s the point in pea-shooting top-left? Guys from top-left never have a problem with aggro.

I usually finish 162 near banner on MQ spawns or south on amalgamation spawns. IDK if it’s a screen size issue but I could never see the top right spawn unless I run further top right near the spawn point which means I have to run back again to center if there are no healers. Going top left first I feel like I’m closer to center if the healers aren’t there and peashotting that portion gives enough time for the top right spawn can aggro me so I don’t run too far away from banner range.

Or at least that’s what I feel happens during a run. Do note that I’m biased towards AOE caster builds, especially RE cause that’s my most played build for like the past few weeks.

Thanks, this looks like a solid guide!

I’d add a small note on wave 163: if you’re playing a ranged build, don’t sit in the Council’s 44% damage reduction pools. You can afford to take a step or two in exchange for half your damage output. :stuck_out_tongue:

Isn’t it 35%? Anyway this seems like a good advice but if you spend more than 35% time moving away from the range of their debuffs (which are autoattacks so they spam them all the time) then it’s not worth it. Besides, ranged builds are often inquisitor builds that use Storm Spread - shotgun than works best at melee range. You can also lose Censure’s range. Etc.

IMO best strategy is simple: kill the healers and facetank it. There are zero problems with aggro in this wave so no need to complicate it.

I am interested in this as well.

What I do is basically: 1) Pick Crucible of the Dead. It is the best map choice for us.
2) Place the Vanguard banner in Bottom-Left corner. Skip this part if you don’t use banners.
3) Get your blessings. Skip this part too if you don’t use blessings.
4) Camp the Bottom-Left Spawn. Most of the things that you want dead ASAP, spawn here.
5) On wave 154, kill Kubacabra first if playing with blessings & banner. If not, then take care to avoid his blood pools and you may want to focus on other bosses first and leave him for last.
6) On wave 159, always kill Sentinel first. He is the one that causes the most problems for pet builds.
7) On wave 161, head to Top-Right Spawn and kill the Healers that spawn here. If Aleksander comes to you before you can kill them, then quickly run to the Bottom-Left Spawn and fight and kill him there. It will take a while for the healers to get there, so you should have plenty of time.
8) On wave 163, head to Top-Left and then lure the spawns to Mid if playing with Banner or just fight and kill them at their spawn if not. While fighting the 3 Bosses in the middle, remember to take out the Healers first. Otherwise they will heal the Bosses quite alot, making the wave last too long.
9) On wave 167, head to Top-Left and kill the boss’s first form ASAP. Try to take out his second form before wave 168 starts for an easier time.
10) On wave 169, stay within the banner radius and focus Theodin/Korvaak first. If playing without banner, then take care to not lose your pets to Anasteria. You may need to use the pet attack command a bit to reposition your pets and to make them focus on a particular enemy. Here the important point is to kill Theodin/Korvaak before wave 170, meaning you need to kill both their forms ASAP. Otherwise, you will have to face their second form along with whatever spawns on the next wave.
11) On wave 170, go back to Bottom-Left and kill whatever spawns there. Then just kill the other 3 however you want. Just take care not to die to Aleksander’s Aether meteors to the face.
12) Collect your loot, speak to Lokarr and go for round 2.

Bu that is probably not the most efficient way.

@ Maya

I haven’t played pets for a long time. Actually, not since the first nerfs to Witching Hour and Voidwhisper rings. And the nerf to Bysmiel’s Will. But I don’t thing strategies differ all that much.

The big thing for speedrunning pets is the question of using pet attack vs. not using it. You can sort of switch between AoE and single target at will.

Another thing is aggro. Piloting pets in speedruns is all about the making sure you don’t aggro too much. As soon as the biggies start chasing you your DPS goes down the drain.

Another thing is that enemy AoE hurts. Skele builds in particular need a completely different set of strategies.

Point 7) Killing healers in their spawn zone in 161 is ok but might result in anchoring you to an out-of-banner-range spot. I prefer rushing to Alex and killing healers once they get close, on pets too.

Point 8) I must be missing something here because 1x also said he starts 163 with top-left. I got no idea why anyone would be doing that. Did you guys mean top-RIGHT?

Point 9) Not sure why anyone would rush to kill Karroz in 167. He’s 100% inconsequential, imo. It’s basically a trash wave. I just stick to a spot that optimizes aggro and treat Karroz like another ranged hero.

Point 10) With pets I would wanna make sure to finish 168 as close to bottom-right as possible and kill Ana right away in her spawn zone. Losing pets is not good for the timer. Then single target Korvak/Theo (Theo actually strong - especially against skeles), Fleshie/Drav, Fatsos.

Point 12) You don’t need to collect loot. Just opening the chests is enough. The loot stays.

I simply don’t use pet attack anymore. As Sig pointed out to me a few months ago, pet attack makes the most difference in Skeleton builds and if you can’t use it properly, it actually ends up reducing your dps (save for certain things that you want to focus)

Also, I aggro everything and play like pre nerf Binders :p. Tanky spec for the win :smiley:

On 7, sometimes I get healers that hide behind stuff and I miss them. Hence why. Damn those guys can be a pain. Also, I do my runs without GrimInternals for some reason.

  1. Nope, Top Left. Atleast in my case. Mostly because sometimes they just run into banner range without me having to move away from there and by the time the 3 guys spawn in the middle, all of them are neatly stacked in the middle area and get wiped out rather quickly. Sometimes I also go with bottom-right.

  2. He has Mindcontrol. Dangerous for pet builds.

  3. I often find that Korvaak skips into 170 simply because of how long his death animations are. I hate it :cry:

  4. Ah, I forgot about that. I blame GDStash :stuck_out_tongue:

Maya, I think you’re describing normal pet crucible strategy more than speedrun strategy, even if that strategy yields the best (or close) results with most pet builds.

I agree with most of the points you listed. I do a few things slightly different so I’ll list those here for completeness:

  • wave 154: I start with the trash mobs in the lower right because the FG mobs include a couple of healers. They typically die around the same time Kuba leaves his starting postion and comes into range of the banner anyway.
  • wave 167: I start with the lower left and then move to the middle. As soon as Karroz comes into banner range (sometimes before I get to the middle) I switch focus to him and kill him.
  • wave 169: I start with the lower left. You can usually kill Kreig/Dravos before anything else gets into banner range. I then go for whoever is in range, prioritizing Theodin, Ana, Korvaak.

The above is for general play though, not speedrunning (meaning builds that can hope to get 5:30 or below). Optimal pet piloting strategy changes as your clear speed increases. I suspect as you get closer to 5 minute runs, that stategy converges with non-pet builds, because at that point you’re killing things very very quickly and the biggest time difference is how quickly you can get to everything.

Here are a few of the things that change for me as clear times increase:

  • When builds get typical clear speeds faster than ~6:30, I start rush Aleks on wave 161 instead of starting with the healers.
  • When builds get typical clear speeds faster than ~5:30, I start to focus my player efforts on drawing enemies to the center as fast as possible. I make sure my pets are always doing something, but I try to move around a bit, getting a little closer to each spawn location to ensure they come at me as fast as possible.
  • When builds get typical clear times faster than ~5:00, I start drawing nems to the center on 160/170 to kill them all at once instead of trying to take out the lower left nem before everything else engages.

As for usage of “pet attack”, it varies from build to build, based on both pets and power. Pets tend to naturally spread out and attack a lot of different targets. This can be useful because it acts like AoE and it does a good job killing trash that is spread out. Using “Pet attack” can cause your pets to spend time running to a new location instead of attacking, which is not what you want. That said, you don’t want them to waste time attacking the targets that you don’t need to kill to end the wave, like the Carnivous plants that Ugdenbog Overgrowths spawn. It’s worth using pet attack to get them focused on real targets again.

I also use it a bit to focus on specific high value targets, and on waves with a lot of trash I generally rush my pets to the center at the beginning of the wave so AoE can hit as many things as possible.

There are a lot of other pet attack subtleties that you sort of pick up over time. Like it’s often best to target them at something in the middle or back of a pack. If you go for ones in the front you lose out on a lot of your AoE.

But yeah, overuse of pet attack will lower your clear times. Optimal use will shave a couple of seconds here or there, but the difference is not enormous.

Lol, back in the day when 95% pet builds had double Familiars and Skeletons felt naked without Flame Torrent, ground->enemy double pet attack routine was a must. In crucible, as pointed out by Sigatrev, it’s better not to use it outside priority targets.

  1. He has Mindcontrol. Dangerous for pet builds.

Right. I forgot. Sentinel, too.

  1. I often find that Korvaak skips into 170 simply because of how long his death animations are. I hate it :cry:

Which is why I suggest eliminating Ana quickly before anyone is in range and then turning all your cannons against Korvaak so that he doen’t have time to turn. He turns = no record.

Yes, makes sense :smiley: (And I forgot Dravis, he is kind of annoying in 169 compared to Krieg imo)

Thx. I edited the guide a little to include advice from the comments.

I hoped for pet players to contribute because pets have almost always been the one to own crucible speedrunning.