You hide in Zantai’s closet and wait till he goes to sleep, obviously 
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No-one tested anything. We’re just doing mental self satisfaction here to sleep better.
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Yes, go in high SR (90+) with DW meele or vitality leecher, don’t move your camera, pull 1 boss from the left, after killing him pull 1 boss from the right, after killing him pull other 2 bosses.
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nor am I.
i wish i had any sort of community to begin with and not just a bunch of people tryharding game’s content and ending up in marginalized group.
whats for? both forum (or wherever these guys dwell) and discord/russian discord are echochambers with polarized opinions. if it is, as you claim it ,“my community’s” vision, then why would “”“I”"" bang my head against the wall trying to prove something, when i can present ““my”” opinion as a undoubtful truth to people, who are apparently identical to me? is it worth the effort? and who are so-called “unbiased” people? where can “”“I”"" find them? And why do their opinion matter?
anyways, we’re derailing the topic too much and i think both you and I won’t change our biased minds. as you have mentioned - we have no control.
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Just a bunch of people usually gets in the middle of almost every argument/problem. God knows why? I think problems are biased.
Oh damn, I get in the middle of every problem too but my problem is I just can’t shut up what’s yours’?
Technically, nothing worths the effort but we do it anyway, because we’re alive. And while we’re doing it so, why not doing it with right manners then results may present itself and it may create a moment of joy to our meaningless lives.
Anyway, we’re derailed too far already. Probably someone will split the posts again. So long, and thanks for the fish.
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Getting real philosophical in here.
At no point have we ever Not cared about endgame balance. It genuinely amazes me that the opposite is even suggested on this forum after nearly 5 years of endgame focused content updates and balancing. It also disappoints me after all these years of patch notes filled with player suggestions to hear we are ignoring players or only listening to certain individuals. Gods know it would be trivial to create an echo chamber by using bans and the ignore feature, but that’s not, nor has ever been, what we are interested in.
Considering what a small subset of our customers balance changes even affect, one could even say we are distributing our efforts poorly, but we are hardcore gamers ourselves and there are certain things we value and consider important. Where we tend to disagree with some players is where the goalposts should land, and the stubbornness we’ve faced in light of that also never ceases to amaze me.
We are addressing a known exploit, one we’ve tolerated for a long time and made clear over the months that it was one we could very easily fix if a certain attitude around the Shattered Realm remained. And here we are…We are not incapable of reading the room though and where the community’s views on the game mode have landed. Players set their sights on SR75+, largely our own fault for having Celestial Waystones, and anything we say be damned. Players want to push even higher SR clears, but they can only do so with the exploit.
Fact is, builds quickly start to fall off the radar above SR65 when they have to contend with 4 bosses at once (as in, the intended way). Shockingly, loot in the Shattered Realm was balanced for this. It doesn’t even scale past SR87 because mathematically nothing should be surviving that high (hint, anything that can pull all 4 bosses at SR90 and survive is, how do the locals put it…overtuned).
But then came the camera abuse and all that went out the window. Suddenly we needed Deathly Waystones for the SR pushers to be challenged because, to nobody’s surprise, pulling bosses one by one makes it way easier. I’m not sure if we didn’t make a mistake by not addressing the exploit when requests for higher checkpoints started coming. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess. But we didn’t, and here we are now and you can’t put the genie back in the bottle.
So we are not going back to the 4-boss gang-up. We don’t feel that 1 boss pulls are conducive to the game mode though. At that point, the boss rooms might as well just be 1 boss. The other 3 are just delaying the inevitable.
I’m not entirely sure if 1-2-1 setup is right. Maybe 2-2 is a better one. Time will tell I guess and we’ll go from there. The important thing is that an exploit not known to all players and not universally abused is going away, and that takes one variable out of the equation in looking at build performance in SR objectively.
It’s no question that those getting to SR100+ are skilled players, but there’s also no question that very very few archetypes can push that high and there’s a takeaway there. Unfortunately oftentimes, as is the cliché player reaction, rather than the response being “wow, this is overpowered, it should get toned down”, instead it’s “this is great and balanced, every build should be able to do this, the devs are stifling build diversity by not embracing it”.
How anyone looks at RATA builds and a handful of pet builds pushing past 100, while virtually nothing else can, and thinks the problem lies in everything else is beyond me.
P.S. Frankly, for those that enjoy the “Dark Souls”-esque nature of fighting individual bosses at high SR would do well with a boss-rush style game mode where you just fight boss after boss with ever increasing scaling. It’s an entirely different beast than the Shattered Realm, though it actually would not be that hard to mod in (hint hint 
).
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gonna add my 5 cents, but people’ve been screaming “NERF RETAL, IT’S STUPIDLY BROKEN” since the very first day of FG. And it was nerfed ofc, but apparently not enough.
as for pets - i always thought that was your decision to let pets be “overpowered” in deep SR, because they’re relatively worse at CR.
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The eternal story of the unrequited love 
I was surprised, but several people supported such idea in this thread so did I. May be we should have a poll about this?
Make bosses attack you all-in, but reduce scaling a bit and fix certain OP bosses.
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Your suggestion is this I guess; poll with a 3 option;
- 1v4 but less power scaling and weakened nemesis.
- 1v1 but more power scaling and empowered nemesis.
- 1-2-1 positioning and other features this thread and next patch brings to the table.
If I get it correctly. It’s like first two option is add up to the same thing. Only difference is the playstyle changes.
What makes SR a lot more frustrating than other modes (and to a lesser extent, Crucible is guilty of this as well) is simply how random the bosses are. You have bosses that are basically pushovers, you have bosses that provide a huge number of debuffs at once but are not offensively threatening (like fumble snake), you have bosses that hit hard and do little more (Gargobol), and the combination of the harder bosses is a completely different game than the easier bosses. I love Crucible a lot more than SR precisely because each wave was hand-selected to provide a good challenge of bosses and Heroes (and even then, fighting Korvaak at Wave 169 is a different animal entirely from Theodin; combine that with the mutators and even fully optimized builds are going to have it rough).
It’s far too easy (and lazy imo) to just place a random generator mode and leave it like that and not GAF when people complain about how horrible certain configurations could get (such as the mystery of the Hero with ~300% resists that comes up time to time). It ruins the sense of achievement when you have to fight a gauntlet of really difficult bosses to get past SR75, while another person gets the easiest bosses and gets the same result. I’m hoping that there’s some care when it comes to which bosses get lumped together, as certain combinations would be a joy to fight, while others make me ask why I’m bothering to try.
For example, considering how difficult fighting Mad Queen + Nemesis would be, it would be fun if you only fought her with Swarm Queen Ravna and those 5-6 insect heroes. Same with Korvaak only being lumped in with certain FQ heroes. Hell, I’d take fighting Karroz & Salazar together over fighting those ridiculous Magi twins that only count as 1 boss.
The point being: if you want us to fight multiple bosses at once, make it actually fun. Certain combinations of enemies are hard enough to fight on their own (there’s a reason Reaper & co are called Nemeses and not simply "bosses, but even harder), much less combined with enemies you can’t shake off.
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What is happening here? Children being mad that their candy is being taken away? Not surprising really and nothing new.
The amount of post launch support crate showed us is oscar worthy and people still bitch about minor things, grow up tyvm 
I just hope that crate will put Grim Dawn to rest and focus on the future. The ride was amazing, but as Zantai once reminded/pointed out ‘all good things come to an end’ 
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Can you play SR co-operatively with multiple people? I haven’t tried it myself.
Because currently playing Main campaign co-operatively is very underwhelming (way to easy - hopefully subject for a future patch). But playing high SR shards with friends would potentially be lots of fun, and might be easier to deal with tough boss combinations. If there are x players in game, then boss spawns can be x- X+1 -x
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Yes you can. Try crucible, it becomes like tower defense. But SR scaling is better and more challenging.
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I can attest to this, multiplayer CR is a fucking blast.
Im glad GD is an offline, single-player game first. But lots of people sleep on multiplayer- The best experiences I’ve had in the game have been multiplayer ones. Ill never forget being new to the game, and joining my first multiplayer session. The group was about to enter the Steps of Torment dungeon, I happened to join right before they popped the seal on the door.
Id played through the game almost up to Homestead, but had been too scared to even attempt the dungeon on my own, so had never even witnessed the door opening. I remember the feeling of excitement and adrenaline, passing through that entrance and losing my connection to rifts. The other members of my party, 2 melee builds and a pistol/shield commando, made sure I knew if i died, i couldnt return to the dungeon.
Naturally being brand new to the game and not yet a member of these forums, my mind started racing, as i thought if i died inside the dungeon my character could be locked out of it for good, not just in that session. My adrenaline peaked and oh my god what an awesome experience that dungeon was- i was a DW blademaster and using Riftstones in both weapons, so 4 mobility skills (shadow strike, blitz, and 2x rift strike or whatever). It felt like a true MMO experience, particularly that first room that the doors lock behind you and those waves of enemies spawn. I was like a rogue, backstabbing everything. God it was great.
I have tons of stories, i could write a book about them. Maybe i should. Crucible multiplayer is the shit, but ive found SR multiplayer to be less exciting due to the focus being kill as fast as possible and if others cant keep up oh well, then in boss rooms noobs get booted from the session for dying in there and causing bosses to heal up, smart noobs wait in town while the real players defeat the bosses, which also kills the fun.
CR on the other hand, like @fordprefect mentioned, due to its stationary arena environment, can be played like a tower defense using the banners/beacons, and this allows for better tactical involvement from all parties. Noobs will still struggle and youll get the occassional XP leeching scumbag that stick on the sidelines while everyone else is fighting, but the best parts of this mode stem from the fact that everyone is always together, in a set location that affords the ability to strategize in a cleaner more reliable way than in SR. And if a douchebag is leeching XP on the side you can quit and rejoin using your retaliation witchblade with warcry and bloody pox (fevered rage variant w/o the enemy debuff nodes) to pull all enemy aggro to your position and just follow the douchebag around everywhere so theyre forced to contribute.
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Hello! I wanted to ask if there are plans to buff the hellhound pet. Its probably the only pet that underperforms. Like increasing the Summon Limits number through the skill itself or buffing it to be a bit stronger? Maybe a Hellhound focused Set 
( I have to say that I dont like the idea of sets increasing the numbers of Pets)
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Except the lags… Try playing with people that 10000 km away from you
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I honestly havent had many exoeriences with multiplayer lag and ive put a lot of hours into multiplayer. The only lag ive really noticed was the ol’ “player is joining the session” lag. Outside of that its been fine.
So if people are worried about build diversity, why not add a few boss encounters that specifically address that?
Say, a boss with slightly less damage, with a debuff ability of -10% total retal damage and -2% all resists,
Or a melee boss with a telegraphed attack that can penetrate shields, or a speed/cd debuff aura that isn’t active within 5 meters?
I never even played SR, but “non-tank melee dies in high levels” seems to be the problem of so many ARPGs out there, one could almost take posts from one forum to another.
Also, I am positively surprised (though I suppose I shouldn’t be, at this point) that crate is still supporting and patching this game.
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Offering my few cents regarding pushing deep SR with pets, I don’t think any of the pet builds doing so, would be able to do it like this without camera abuse.
I cannot speak for other players, but personally I have used it extensively even SR 80+ with my builds.
Now, another reason regarding pet builds is something that should be no secret to you. Having Pets tank for you means that as long as the player can avoid aggro and keep pets alive long enough or rotate their summoning in such a way that atleast some of them remain in the field always, it is rather easy to whittle down the boss.
Hence why Iron Maiden, Fabius etc are widely considered to be major threats for Pet builds in deeper shards. If they aggro on you, chances are you will get one-shotted.
And I very much doubt that all the SR pushing pet builds, even now with Camera abuse will be able to boast such performance consistently.
Regarding that, I am sure you are also aware that most builders only post their best results even if said result happens to be 1 out of 10 scenario or something with incredibly low success rate.
Now, I know that if the nerf hammer is going to drop, it will. But if SR performance is the reason, I would like to ask that the dropping of the hammer on pet builds be postponed until SR balance changes have come to pass first.
And even then, I would like to ask that instead of merely looking at numbers or the posted results, the “why” and “how” be also looked into. Yes, you guys have the necessary data, atleast math wise and no, I don’t need to tell you how your own game plays.
But I personally would hate to see something nerfed because some of us decided to abuse every single thing we could and then threw ourselves at each bosses until due to stroke of luck (or skill…) they somehow fell after the hundredth time we died…
Another thing to note would also be that HC SR plays vastly differently due to not having the luxury of repeatedly dying. While HC might not be the major consideration when it comes to balance, I believe that any balance change to builds based on the volatile and abusable nature of SC SR will end up hurting more than helping.
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Huh. This is news to me. I never really rotate the camera during battles - especially during boss battles when I need to be on my toes - so I didn’t even know about this. I did notice that in some boss rooms the whole lot of bosses does not rush me instantly, and those are nice refresher areas to me where I can try and be clever and only deal with one or two of them at a time -even if it is still hard since you have a much smaller area to fight them if you don’t want to trigger the others.
I frankly feel the arenas in the shattered realm are detrimental to non-melee builds. With my casters, ranged attackers and especially summoners, all I can do is run around clockwise the arena - if I can - or teleport everywhere if I cannot, and try to stay alive. Which is hard when you face those rush-capable bosses like the Aetherial Colossi types or the Warden, or those that love to fire rapid projectiles everywhere. I don’t feel like every build is supposed to facetank bosses at melee range - wizard types are glass cannons in most ARPGs. That’s why everyone hated Duriel in Diablo II, with his tiny confined arena, dash attacks and freezing.
While I agree that cheats like these should be removed, I hope the change won’t mean that you can potentially get rushed by say, Theodin Marcell and Gargabol as soon as you enter. 'cause that leads to running around and triggering all the other bosses.
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