No comment
What’s funny is that playing these builds in main game was nothing exciting damage-wise. The trade-off was there. Only in crucible were they able to shine more because of the monster stats.
Still reading through
True, it shine mostly in crucible because of cruci buffs, those S&B build can be easily outperformed in vanilla game. 
that a problem i already pointed out in a feedback on crucible (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46203), basically it favor way to much tanky build and you will get your damage with cruci buff anyway.
You’re forgetting to include that Targo’s got an increase on it’s flat Physical Damage and % Trauma, but hey, let’s talk about the part that was nerfed only…
Oh, and it’s still pretty a strong Devotion.
And blind fury nerfed again. Very strong T3 devotion.
This is exactly what they have done with falcoon swoop (nerfed wps, add some flat damage) and you are delusional if you think the little flat gonna equalise the WPS loss.
Secondly i have to agree that 1.0.0.3 falcon swoop was OP (so is Targo’s hammer) , but it was nerfed repeatedly and it feel kinda weak now.
- Shouldnt attaining BiS (end game god tier stuff) make you god like without considering whatever you are caster, S&B, melee or whatever?
This decision to obliterate end game item usefulness is against one of the core ARPG principles - attain better gear to become unstoppable machine.
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Why should all builds be equal? Makes no sense especially this is a single player experience. There must be bad, average, good, great and amazing builds - you are trying to squash a insect with a tank here…
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S&B werent OP at all in 1.0.0.7 - unless your definition for OP is that i can barely finish Gladiator - that is with buffs and banners (got insta gibbed without buffs with 15k HP).
As a relatively new player compared to some folks here (I have 250 hours in the game) who plays this build WITHOUT all the fancy gear…
This patch is going to hurt.
I think I’ll level another mastery combo…
You can believe in whatever you want to, but you’re still wrong. 
Targo is still pretty strong, and was ridiculously too good for such an early constellation.
Because if prospective players come to the forums and ask how build diversity is, and are told that basically everyone is playing Witchblades or Commandos because they’re so OP, those prospective players probably won’t care to buy the game and Crate loses out on sales.
I don’t mind the CD, but it activated on block and in some cases with high block chance and recovery you didn’t get enough projectiles. So they didn’t need to nerf the weapon damage.
Okay and since they nerfed falcon and targo for being too good early skills. How about addressing Turtle shell which is a shit T-1 skill or maybe Blind Sage and Empyrion which are horrible T-3 skills.
I know buffs do come but somethings have been complained about for long and no buffs arrived yet the nerfs do come without fail. I don’t mind nerfs, i loved previous patches but this one doesn’t feel right. I am still not going full rambo cause i am willing to play it and see how it feels in practice
Sorcerer, Bladmeaster, Sabo, 2h warder they’re all pretty OP.
Vitality Conjurers have insane sustain. So no one will say go play commando or witchblade.
I say this again commando wasn’t broken, if anyone feels its broken then it’s cadence and DM. Not Demo and certainly not Blast Shield
O you are so wrong about that, I have two casters builds that are outperforming BMs/WBs in almost every possible aspect. Yes, even on dummy and crucible. I killed the dummy in 34 secs with tanky caster, its almost equal to BM builds now, and that same caster is more reliable in cruci than any shield build.
However I do agree that it is problem that only handful of bis geared builds (pay special attention to BIS geared) can finish gladiator crucible, but instead to improve other builds to be capable of doing so you are nerfing good part of those handful builds. Sry I don’t see much logic in that, but its your game do what ever you think is best.
P.S. Again idc, but most selfound casual players will continue to quit the game after finishing normal/veteran, probably because other difficulty levels of game will be to much frustrating for them to play.
The problem is that these were the 2 builds which with BiS gear could have the hardest content on farm status.
Its not these 2 builds its that all other builds were just not on par for that particular content. As people above mentioned - in regular game S&B were very slow and inefficient.
Yes you can eventually complete Gladiator in some time with a few other builds (CT sorc/warlock/BWC/) but not in an effective manner - will rest of the builds os about being lucky not getting insta killed/getting bad mutators.
Can you say that with 1.0.0.8 the problem with having 2 builds viable for Crucible farming has been aleviated? Will there be many more builds who can achieve a good success rate in that?
Like I said, Targo is still pretty good, even with the nerfs. You would only get a few procs if you were facing single enemies, or your block chance was low… the proc is made in a way so that, the more enemies hitting you, the better it becomes, because you could get a crapload of hammers around you (which made it ridiculously way too good for a low tier constellation).
Okay and since they nerfed falcon and targo for being too good early skills. How about addressing Turtle shell which is a shit T-1 skill or maybe Blind Sage and Empyrion which are horrible T-3 skills.
Empyreon does a damage reduction debuff now, which is definitely more useful than some Armor reduction debuff, and Seeker got it’s reduction reduced, but it’s damage increased. I can’t say for the Seeker, as I never bothered with it, but the Empyreon one is at least a little better IMO.
-Damage reduction isn’t useful when the skill has a long cd, a low activation chance
-Also, Damage reduction is kind of like RR i want it to come from a reliable source so Oleron’s Might would always be a go-to OR War Cry
-I’ll have to test Targo to confirm this, i know how it worked. I am not opposed to the CD, just the weapon damage nerf.
It will be interesting to see how the build functions in 1.0.0.8 for those of us without the Markovian set with increased timers for overguard and reduced effects of MB.
The RNG has not been terribly kind to me so far with regard to gear that would be BiS for this build and I don’t have any cool down reduction. Overguard isn’t up often enough as it is in the Ultimate roguelike dungeons - forget Gladiator Crucible.
For everything else, you’d need to try it yourself…
Agreed on the War Cry point.
Damage reduction is generally something you go for vs single target. A pack of flesh hulks might tickle you but shar’zul can cut your hp in half with an axe swipe
I am confident you use this in some build, i do as well. And for an on-hit proc the activation chance is low and 2.5 sec is too high. The damage o/p isn’t that high (still testing this part, so please forgive)
I defend SoTH’s on-hit nature but Light of Empyrion isn’t anything impressive.
Again, i’ll take yours and Zantai’s advice and play the patch first.
My Battlemage uses Light of Empyreon, and it procs regularly, every mob pack I ran into tends to proc it.
Although I have Oleron Blood in my mace, 12 points in Warcry (need -dam resist in huge area), and now Light is -% damage too… lol 
Like I wrote earlier I have two casters builds that are more reliable in crucible than any shield build even now.
I guess after 1.0.0.8 we will hear complains how melee builds are underdeveloped compared to casters, because from description of the changes I can see 3-4 caster builds that are going to be meta and noting else will be able to compete with them. I really hope that Im wrong, but knowing how things are going I doubt I am.
Actually, in regards to that, the next thing we’re working on is to smooth out the difficulty curve and make the transition between difficulties less of a shock, precisely because some players are simple not prepared for what going up a difficulty means.