V1.1.4.1 Item Tuning

This about sums up Silverbolt before the patch, too.

One of the most confusing buffs.

(But don’t let that distract from Valdun rifle also being quite poor itself)

-1 to Nex and Ortus being redesigned around fire Sabouter. I think they are fine as it is - great (and only) swords for Sabouter who basically has 1 and a half builds available for endgame.
Big -1 to adding elemental to Nightblade, it’s going to open a huge can of worms. Rather give Fire or/and Lightning RR to Night’s Chill thru relevant items like Blazeheart or Stormheart or whatever.

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highly agree. lightning trickster and fire sabo&dervish deserve more love than, for ex, being hardly able to lower Valdaran’s lightning resist to 0 (if we talk about trickster).
See no clue what “can of worms” may be opened with simple buffing of three classes.

Highly disagree. See inquisitor? Passive elemental RR. Autopick for elemental builds. If elemental RR on night’s chill happens nightblade will basically be the elemental class. No more to pick Occultist, Shaman or even Inquisitor for elemental RR unless you use another skill from that class. Yes it’ll displace even inquisitor since Veil of Shadow isn’t an exclusive skill.

You guys are thinking DW fire sabo, DW lightning trickster. But in reality what will happen is canister sabo, stormreaver trickster. WORSE - it’s gonna be DW fire Infiltrator, DW lightning infiltrator. DW elemental infiltrator. Totaly agree with @mad_lee here. It’s a huge can of worms


The FUCK are you talking about? You do realise there are Cold Saboteurs as well? And they will benefit greatly from this change, yes? N&O will remain exactly as they are - swords for Sabo.

Yeah, cool, the swords which already have their own mods and own styles. Wrong.

How is this a problem for you??? There are sooo many Sabo builds out there that Canister Sabo is a problem? Or god forbid, lightning Trickster instead of Vindicator?

Yeah, cool. Fire DW Infiltrator without Fire Fervor and swords with ADCtH. Good luck with ABB, btw.
Lightning Infiltrator without Savagery. Hahahaha, are you serious?
Yeah, again. Since when Tri-elemental Nightblades are a problem? In 2016 there were great tri-ele Sabo buiilds by Jaco. Everything’s buried now.

You are greatly overestimating this change. Additional RR won’t do shit for classic cold Infiltrators. Moreover, maybe we can finally get Stormserpent out of it’s misery.
Jesus Christ, people.

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Calm down, mr. Praetorian, we are on the same side. I am talking about me being against Nex and Ortus redesigned into FIRE Sabouter swords. I want them remain what the are now. And I do “realise there are Cold Sabouters as well” as I am the the one who made the best cold Sabouter in the game.

You do realise it doesn’t have to be melee auto-attacking Infiltrator to break the game balance and post 4:30 Crucible run? Also, Deathmarked Infiltrator attacks with a punny Beronath auto-attack and is still the best all-around auto-attacker in the game.

If you add elemental RR to Veil of Shadow I will make Tricksters and Infiltrators that will be the reason for instant hotfix patches, I promise you that. And it’s not going to be hard.

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Besides balance, making VoS another elemental RR aura would just devalue the identity of AoC as THE elemental RR aura. Multiple skills doing the exact thing is just lame in terms of diversity.

Yeah I don’t know… I think we should try to avoid putting more RR on passive abilities.

We’re not adding new RR to Veil of Shadows, you guys can move on.


to be honest any on death proc on pet items should be change to on hit or on critical hit, its almost impossible to make use of the procs and because of this pet build cannot make full use of an item made for them, if you care to change when hit procs on items like black hand of hanar i would also be even more happy, also buff the black grimoire of og napesh pls, i loved the item on vanilla grim dawn but the revenant might be one of the most fragile pets on the game right now, kinda sad because he was supposed to be a damage soaker on a pet build, i don’t want him to be the tankiest or overpower, just want him to survive any encounter with a boss/nemesis or any strong hero… pls zantai giff me moar skellies ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

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I know I mentioned my thoughts about bloodied crystals on discord Z… but I am in the camp of making it flat armor instead of %armor. This will make them better for those in light armor, and worse for those in heavy. Also how about taking bleed res back to 15%.

Also maybe giving rune bound topaz +physique instead of plus health. Or perhaps a small amount in addition to the health. This would create a bit more of a difference between the two.


I like the sound of that.

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I think this is a better way to go on this. +1


I like all of these suggestions!

Also this is a bit of a shot in the dark… but

I know hellhounds are bit under whelming from what I’ve read and even with lost souls set they are just passable (from what I’ve read I could be wrong here and some one more knowledge on pets please correct me if I am) soooooooooo

Could we either change the hound conduit a bit to make it summon 3 of them and convert fire and physical to chaos… but with a total damage penalty applied? Or perhaps make a new item with a Cerberus themed name (3 headed hound). Although the conduit mod should be strong as giving up the amulet slot on any pet build means a lot. And maybe a sweet new color swap for them? :wink:

You don’t need to hide it. When you guys suggested elemental RR to night’s chill you were thinking of DW Fire FS sabo and DW lightning savagery trickster. Guess what? That’s not gonna happen. Fire melee and lightning melee have shit for item support. The first builds to benefit will be casters. Then people complain again because WE WANT DW MELEE THAT’S NIGHTBLADE IDENTITY so Zantai buffs fire and lightning melee after too much pressure. Then infiltrator becomes better than the two mentioned classes. Look at current deathmark if you wanna see what I mean. After that people then rant about sabo being shit again. All that while nightblade is becoming the universal ele RR provider for basically every other class and inq apart from infiltrator is on the dumpster.

Oh God thanks.


Thank God. Frankly I think some of the homogenization of goodness for Inquisitor and Oathkeeper was a mistake since it ended up making them appear on so many great builds. But its been tuned a lot better since then.

Class narrowness makes some class combos worse than others, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Yes the sacrifice is “things being able to fit together for top tier performance” but you gain more sense of identity for each class. Universality for class combo performance and homogeneity are not far apart in most cases.

I’ve thought long and hard about the desires of the power pushers and the health of not just the appearance of diversity in the game but actual healthy diversity and design.

6 minutes to 9 minutes in crucible is the end result to me.

6 minutes = squishy build that dies a lot in crucible run attempts and basically can’t exist well outside of crucible.

6:30 minute = top tier glass cannon builds that can exist in campaign but explode in SR.

7:00-8:00 minute = typical healthy average build range with ideally some transitional ability to do SR decently, like SR 40-50ish without worrying about death if piloting properly.

8 minute + should be very tanky safe builds, the slower the tankier.

To me this is the ideal state to strive for in Grim Dawn which will satisfy players who enjoy different play styles and make sure the different playstyles feel like they have fair pro’s and con’s and identity. This will be VERY hard to accomplish but it’s a good pursuit. And by BINDING build performance to these limitations, YES some builds WILL fall through the cracks and stop working as things are adjusted, but the overall state of the game’s builds that do work will be more fair feeling and healthy.

Less of, “Why does that tanky safe build also get great clear times?!”

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I didn’t like the RR to VoS suggestion either, and TBH I think Thermite Mines should’ve stayed as Fire + Lightning RR because limiting the types gives the skills more identity.
Sure Censure gives -Ele % res, but it’s an exclusive skill and even then it could probably still be reduced by a few % IMO.

Giving everything so many types of RR will just keep people asking for more (“Well VoS and Mines got it, so why can’t X skill? It sucks in comparison now!”) and there would be no end in sight.

That’s not to say I don’t want more class combo options; most suggestions I make are hoping for just that.
But I don’t think giving every RR skill 4+ types is for the better because of homogenization and it’s bound to allow for some absurd combos -> people will make videos of their 5 min Crucible and then the skill gets nerfed.
And in the end it might leave some builds worse off than before that never asked for any of that and didn’t make use of the newly added RR.

If you want RR added to specific skills it’s better to put it on skill modifiers so the values and end purpose can be better controlled.

I agree, RR is my least favorite solution, unless it’s for like a meme build that really can only barely exist through it.

VoS really just needs DA and it’s be fantastic. It’s already great in Crucible on some builds. Arguably it could stay as it is because if you make it too good its 100% pass through will just overshadow other 2handers for ranged abilities. Though I suppose that could be fixed by lowering the damage on it too. Hm.

I don’t know if some of you noticed, but I’m not looking for unnecessary change ideas for masteries.

This is an ITEM tuning discussion.

Besides, if anything is getting RR, it’s gotta be Arcanist, since it’s just trash without it.