V1.1.6.0 Itemization Discussion

Yup. You’re right. Proc is not so bad when using skills including% WD. In off-hand, MW does not work, so it is a good alternative.

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There are only 2 acid damage legendary boots (M.) - Venomspines and Stonetreaders. Both lacking slow or stun resistance which acid builds need very much (especially melee acid builds). Please consider adding some of slow / stun res to them or add new acid dmg boots.

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-1 from me. Both already offer enough in terms of resists/armour when compared to other Legendary boots. Have you considered looking at Epics instead if you really need Slow/Stun resistance in your boots slot? Namely:

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Rather remove some of other resistances but add slow / stun ones. Why do acid builds have to use blue boots after all?

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Mythical Vaultkeeper’s Mark
It should be a good medal for ranged pierce builds, but gets overshadowed by Direwolf Crest big time. I know one is an epic and the other one a legendary item, but the discrepancy is still crazy. Direwolf Crest is insanely good for melee pierce builds obviously and even for many non pierce melee builds due to its ability to enable dual wielding alongside 12% damage vs beasts and beastkin and 130 OA. Imo Vaultkeeper’s Mark should be at least worth considering for a ranged pierce build.

My proposal would be to increase the OA from the “Vaultkeeper’s Aim” ranged only passive from 40 to 130 (Or at least to 90, to have an equal sum of OA+DA on both).

Yes the passive does give 8% on top, but the medal doesn’t have a WPS nor 12% damage to beasts and also yes Vaultkeeper’s Mark has 40 DA, but Direwolf Crest has 32% aether res. This change would at least bring the OA in line with Direwolf Crest.

Compare e.g. Mad_Lee’s “Top Gun” purifier with Direwolf Crest vs with Vaultkeeper’s Mark.
Or a boltthrower Tactician sketch I did just now with Direwolf Crest vs with Vaultkeeper’s Mark.

Why do blue boots have to be worse?

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Because it is by design. No proc on those blue bots too. Less damage, less armor.

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Many blue items would like a word with you lol.

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Not even my point of view. Quoting Zantai on this : 1.1.5.0 update and my dissapointment with it and general rant

Summary
At no point did we say that was the plan, so if that was your 
expectations,  you’ve misinterpreted the previews.

Epics were always intended as entry-level items that serve as a 
stepping stone to  build-defining Legendaries or exceptional Monster
Infrequents. 
What we did do though is update Epics to better serve that role and 
give players still progressing a leg up into the endgame (and a more 
enjoyable leveling experiencethrough better drops).
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Zantai wasn’t talking about every single item in the game in specific. What he said is true for the average item. Does it have to be every single item though? Do we need a purple version of e.g. Magelord rings?

Don’t get me wrong I don’t disagree with you on the point of Venomspines maybe being in need of a buff (Stonetreaders are definitely fine as they are though). If there is no acid build where Venomspines are better than any of the above mentioned blue ones, then yes I agree they need a buff. Or maybe nerf the blue boots? :thinking:

My above suggestion is also in line with what Z said imo, as the proposed buff wouldn’t put the blue and purple item on the same powerlevel, but narrow the gap between them.

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Venomspines have potent enough skill bonuses that they see use on even non acid builds. They serve their purpose well as narrow use case boots and IMO shouldn’t be warped into yet another generalist option.

Look at this build that starving for slow / stun res even with all buffs up and M.Final March - https://www.grimtools.com/calc/d2j3rvlV

That’s my build lol. Slow res is fine, and stun res can also be semi-decent, build has 5 craftables.

As for Venomspines, they’re ok, not top tier but fine. I’d like phys res there, and raise base armor value. I think acid has no cc res like chaos has no rr. It’s a feature.

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Yes it is your build. I was like 'oh nice build, I got the full set why not try it" but then I saw cc resistances :smiley: oh NO :smiley: I don’t know why you call 30% slow res as ‘fine’…

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Can you guarantee slow / stun res on craftables? They are random out of 3

You can adjust it for more cc res at the cost of dmg. You can drop Abominable Might or Torch for Sailor instead of Eel and something else, drop Venomtongue Mantle for Radaggan shoulders, there’s that Leathery Hide component (could use a buff btw), etc. I choose dmg. In this situation cc res are too pricey.

But I agree, acid could use some love. Mage hunters, for example, usually perform better offensively and got cc res stacked and other defenses much better than say dervishes or witch hunters - just from masteries. Elemental gear is also stacked with cc res, phys res, etc. If you wanna play acid and have all your defenses topped then I guess only SR set.

You can… craft many?

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Multiple crafting is pretty expensive for me. But yeah possible .

Then suggest which ones you think should be replaced. But keep in mind you could be messing with other people’s characters if they don’t have problems with stun/slow resistance but you do.

Doesn’t necessarily mean Blues are bad though. Several Blues are still solid gear pieces because they provide rare but precious stats despite lacking damage/procs. Final March is prized for this being a strong set of defensive boots that provide Physique/+DA, Physical/Slow resistance and Aether/Chaos resistances all in one.

You want damage? Then use your damage boots (e.g. Venomspine Greaves for Acid/Poison) and get your Stun/Slow resistance elsewhere.

The fact is sometimes you have to make sacrifices. Every stat will not line up perfectly on every build.

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Mythical Gutripper

I’ve been trying to help out @Rhylthar by thinking of Bleeding builds that don’t rely on Bloodrager Set. I have not seen many DoT builds in general that rely more on skills with large DoT components than the standard constant attack and leech strategy. I went on the bloody display thread and was shocked to see that Bleeding Cadence was nowhere to be found. Fighting Form has one of the largest flat DoTs in the game, and with ranged weapons, it provides 100% pierce through enemies. I thought about how to make a build that relied on Cadence bleed work, but I saw the following problems:

The items is clearly meant for a Bleeding Warder, but Savagery does much better for Bleeding than Cadence ever will, and if you’re running Savagery, then of course you’re going to go with the Bloodrager set - it’s far too good to not run it. If you’re trying to not use the Bloodrager set, you easily fall into problems getting enough OA and DA; something that can easily be solved by… running Savagery.

I’d personally like to see a Bleeding Ranged Cadence build that isn’t immediately overshadowed by Bloodrager Set, so I’d like to see this weapon either provide a skill modifier for Cadence or I’d like to see the +skills in Shaman replaced with another class like Oathkeeper so that you can build around Cadence while still having a class that gives good Bleeding RR. The Bleeding damage to Grasping Vines is already done better by the Wildblood Set; outside the set, there’s a single item that gives extra bleeding damage to Grasping Vines, and that item’s obsolete due to lacking OA and having a mediocre proc.

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Thank you everyone that participated in our latest itemization discussion.

For the most part, the thread stayed on topic and yielded some useful feedback!

At this time, we’re going to lock this discussion as we work on wrapping up changes for the upcoming update, but you are welcome to keep posting feedback in this section of the forum of course.

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