V1.1.6.0 Itemization Discussion

Here we go again!

Previous threads like this have proven successful and, for the most part, remained constructive and on topic, so let’s have another great debate.

Note that V1.1.6.0 is still a way’s away, but that just means everybody has more time to play, test and offer input.

With this upcoming patch, we’d particularly like to review non-set Legendary items that the community would sum up as “never use”. This will naturally be a little subjective as an item one player considers trash or supports a playstyle they hate, another may thoroughly enjoy, so let’s not get into needless opinionated arguments in here.

Please be constructive in your comments. Saying an item is garbage is not helpful, at least not on its own.

Examples of constructive and useful feedback:

  • I’d never use item X because item Y does the same thing, only better
  • I’d never use item X even though I want to, but item Y has bonuses/a proc that is too critical to make my build functional
  • I’d never use item X in my build (Grimtools link appreciated) because it leaves a big gap in my resists
  • I disagree about earlier comments about item X. I use it in my build and it fits perfectly
  • I agree about item X. I tried it in my build and item Y always yielded better results

With all that said, let’s hear it!

17 Likes

I don’t know if the others who have tested vit savagery also feel lacklustre damage (I am guessing yes, from some brief exchanges), but as a result Bloodrender was only something I used before I gave up on making that archetype work beyond really slow SR farming. Success was only owing to SR set + crimson spike conferred survivability.

I would suggest an offensive bump to Bloodrender at the very least. I’m of the opinion that the issue is largely rooted in vit melee struggling in general, but this thread is for specific items, and if the item is reworked away from savagery it will ruin the build of anybody using it and remove a niche.

Can anybody comment on howl of the wendigo currently?

2 Likes

Crap weapon. One of the worst in the whole game with zero usage.

M. Nadaan’s Reach. A weapon used for melee BA but has no attack speed. Please add at least 14% of AS to it.
Note that M. Bladefury has attack speed but is worse in terms of skill points.

M. Obsidian Juggernaut. Again, melee weapon without any attack speed.

Corruption of Gargabol. Same, a weapon for autoattackers but no AS. Please add at least 10%.

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Does this mean we won’t have 1.1.5.3?

On topic: I think Janitor’s head (what’s the real name again?) Should have elemental to pierce conversion instead. As it is now, you won’t be able to get 100% cold to pierce with it unless you get 100% elemental to pierce, due to how the multiplicative conversions work. Changing the offhand conversion would make it easier to build around it. I don’t think Janitor’s head will become OP with the changem it’s no spite.

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Disagreed. It’s got cdr. Cdr and speed stats shouldn’t exist together on any item except offhands. It’ll he OP otherwise.

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Tone down cdr then.
Imo, this weapon is more melee than caster. And it is used in ONE caster and in at least 3 melee builds - pierce Cadence/BA.

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It’s more of a caster weapon because of the granted skill.

Tonig down the CDR won’t do a thing. If anything, people have proven it’s one of the best 2H in the game, so a buff is unwarranted.

There are other 2H weapons need buffs a lot more than Nadaan’s Reach.

There are 2H weapons with CDR and speed like Temporal Archblade and Nightshade’s Reach. The thing with Nadaan’s Reach is that it has a lot of flat OA, elemental to pierce and CDR. Speed on top would be overkill.

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it’s the only legendary pierce 2hander in the whole game and it has 0 AS. Imo, there’s sth wrong.

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Rancor and Spite. To be fair, they don’t have attack speed either.

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And they’re caster weapons far more than Nadaan.

EDIT: btw, Spite is completely broken and Rancor - I dunno who needs it now.

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Both are completely fine as they are imo.

Maybe M. Bladefury should be buffed then? It serves no other purpose than Blade Arc. Nadaan’s has many builds

I think it was actually intended to be a caster pistol (hence no attack speed), but the concept kinda failed.

No it’s *strong :slight_smile:

I have people seen facetank ravager with bloodrenders and dark one set (ritualist). Never played it myself though, so can’t give you more feedback unfortunately.

What I personally would like to see is non transmuted stun jacks and primal strike getting buffs. Both skills basically need the (successful) Blade Arc treatment. Buffs to the base skill with nerfs to the transmuter at the same time resulting in a total buff for untransmuted skill and ~no change for transmuted skill.

Also add (partial or full) lightning to cold conversion for CT to harra’s set or swap the aether to cold with lightning to cold as the set pieces have global aether to cold.

About anasteria’s MI: I feel like its nerf should be at least partially reverted. Compared to pyran’s set it’s a little lackluster and CT Spellbinders don’t even use it anymore. Maybe give the devastation mod on it an extra -second back.

3 Likes

I tried putting this Witchblade together recently during 1.1.4.2 after some help from @sir_spanksalot and @Nery. I asked Spanks to try a version he tweaked for Crucible as well, his comments on the build’s performance are below.


Granted, the weapon is aimed at Shaman and not Occultist but there is a trade-off between both masteries that equalises them a bit here:

  • Occultist gets 15% more attack speed and in my version more Vitality damage through fully converted Solael’s Witchfire, Second Rite and Possession compared to Mogdrogen’s Pact and Blood Pact.

  • Shaman gets approx. -30 to 35% more resist reduction on Devouring Swarm fixing the resist reduction problem.

Bottom line is the weapon needs more damage somewhere - it can either be in the form of more flat damage and/or % weapon damage for Shaman variants or resist reduction for Occultist (and probably Necromancer) variants. If there were a way to put this buff somewhere in Soldier to benefit both styles of building it, that would be the best case scenario.

4 Likes

i think these kind of guides for how to make constructive feedback need to be reminded to everyone once in a while. especially when feedback discussions become too heated/oot.

2 Likes

Meaning no disrespect, Z, but typing acid damage into GT and setting the filter to “legendary” will result in a whole bunch of items.

For swords:

  1. Scion of noxious wounds - please add %retal to it
  2. Mad queen claw - it’s not bad, it just doesn’t fit anywhere

Axes:

  1. Corruptian - it’s an oddball for sure. Perhaps change the mod to RE to something else?

Maces:

  1. Plaguebearer - lacks %damage and is outclassed by other DEE gear.
  2. Armarastan crusher: I think the %WD penalty is too high on it.

Dagger:

  1. Venomlash - it’s not bad, but it’s outclassed by a bunch of other gear
  2. Basilisk claw - I have no idea how to use this item.

Scepter:

  1. Scion of noxious winds - Please please please add +skills to the necromancer. Make acid DE a reality

Alsp…please change the flat cold damage mod it gives to DE to vitality or to acid damage

2H swords:

  1. Dreegal’nore - No attack speed, no CDR, no casting speed. It’s the ugly little brother of nightbringer
    ^On this note: It’s hard to make a 2H acid spec work as classes with AA-replacers (e.g. savagery) lack acid support, and classes WITH acid support lack sufficient WPS.

The one exception to this is the OK, but you’re just not going to do well with a small WPS pool

2H ranged:

  1. Venomlance - Suffers from the same problems as 2H acid weapons designed for AA specs

Offhands:

  1. Fiend’s resolve - I get that this is predominantly a chaos item, but it’d be nice to actually make it an acid-centered offhand as it’d open up a lot of builds. I suggest changing the conversion to chaos/acid instead of vit/chaos.

etc. etc.


PREFACE: Will be talking about radaggan, please ignore if uninterested as I udnerstand it’s tangential to OP

I’ve been testing radaggan on-and-off and it’s almost there Z.

I think adding 5% crit damage to the amulet, and maybe a 5 - 10% crit mod to sigil upon completion will make it perfect

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Mythical Warpfire:

I never use it because it’s completely outshined by Grim Fate on Fire/Burn casters. Proc is unreliable and just half of conversion is a bit useless and never used anywhere really.

Suggestion: return this dagger 100% Cold to Fire conversion. Or add some interesting mod to it, like 10% fire resist reduction to Night’s Chill and add attack speed and change +1 to Shaman (Shaman? Really?) to +1 to Nightblade.

Chillheart:

Great build enabling dagger. Mod to Ring of Steel is just bad, sorry, nobody ever builds around this mod because spells with super high cooldown rarely shine in GD unless they have enormous damage. One-handed Ring of Steel does not have this damage and there is already Korba Set doing exactly the same thing but better.

Leviathan:

Halfway there. Needs +1-2 extra targets to Cadence. And Aether to Physical conversion, because there is already Gladiator’s Distinction belt that is used on physical 2-handers that conversts Vitality to Physical.

Venomlance

What is it for? Why is it there? Acid has weak itemization and having ranged two-hander with just +2 to Nighblade skills and no skill mods is puzzling. It needs some meaningful mod to something like ABB and +2 to another Acid mastery.

3 Likes

Chillheart is a great weapon, with a crappy mod. I wouldn’t say it’s not used, but the skill mod might as well not exist

You literally increase RoS’ CDR by 50% for a 40% gain in damage - basically, it’s an overall DPS loss :rofl:

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I even made a thread about it where 90% voted against that mod.

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While I wholly concur with the rest of your post, untransmuted PS is perfectly viable and quite strong at the moment…


Ceno’s List of Why:

Whisperer of Secrets (Bleeding Blade Arc/CoS helmet uniformly outclassed by Bloodrager)

Mythical Wyrmbone Mask. While @RektbyProtoss and I agree that untransmuted Stun Jacks needs a bit more oomph, this is the only item presently trying to accomplish that task and it competes with Light’s Defender. Being so lonely in nature, it itself does not make untransmuted Stun Jacks strong enough to warrant not taking the overwhelmingly-superior LD Helmet.

Mythical Fateweaver’s Mantle. +Static Strike and a proc requiring a Caster Off-hand? Come on, man… (also a proc that gives you 50% more Pierce Resist than anyone could ever need…)

Venomtongue Mantle. The conversion does not really fit any of the supported skills; there’s either no good sources of Chaos to lead to those skills, or what sources of Chaos do exist are for skills that would take this item for Poison, of which Chaos cannot contribute anyways.

Gildor’s Guard…I think. With no base retal and poor uptime on the proc (60% on an on-block proc? That’s an oof, bud), I can’t really envision a use-case for this item.

Heart of Yugol. Truth be told I’ve tried a few Vitality builds with this but they never feel that great and the big highlight of the buff that the chestpiece offers - being some % ADCTH - is hard to make use of with the offered skill selection. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are builds that use this item, because it seems usable, but I’ve never enjoyed any that I’ve tried putting together.

Vestments of Severed Faith. This item would be a lot more impressive if Oathkeeper had Chaos RR. Hint hint.

More or less any of the non-+All Skills belts. But what else is new there?

3 Likes

It’s viable but it’s less than second fiddle to Thunderous Strike. Everytime you pick up untransmuted PS you are basically gimping your build.

3 Likes

Please don’t touch venomtongue mantle. It’s amazing.

Chaos/acid conversion works so well with the occultist and guardian’s gaze :confused:

Use severed faith for the fire damage!

I’ve tried it. It’s really good

1 Like