What i’m getting from this is that you think ABB scales with cast speed. It scales with attack speed actually.
If it’s not what you meant, disregard this.
It’s the opposite. Breath of Belgothian lowers the cooldown of Pneumatic Burst.
Totally guilty of assumption on that one then - just took it as being a muter to offer a bonus with a penalty.
You don’t need a weapon replacer to inherently deal/be built for Vitality damage for it to be used on Vitality builds because of the % weapon damage on it.
For example, Acid/Poison Witch Hunters in the past have successfully used Beronath’s Fury because of the huge amount of Acid damage they can stack onto their weapon and put out through WPS like Execution, Whirling Death and Belgothian Shears on top of it.
Damage cannot be converted more than once is the rule. There is 1 exception to this being Storm Totem/Guardians of Empyrion due to their transmuters not being programmed as damage conversions.
Bleeding Items:
General:
Every item that uses a slot which is/could be occupied by Bloodrager´s Set is obsolote (imho). I won´t break up Set Bonus for any of them. Only solution: Make them Level 84 items, so they can be used till Lvl 94 or Bloodrager drops.
1h-Melee Weapons:
- Howl of the Wendigo: Is it Vitality or Bleeding? For Bleeding…well, no. Needs more Flat Bleeding Damage, different skill modifiers…or maybe it isn´t a Bleeding weapon at all.
- Nightclaw: Flat Damage too low, strange skill modfiers (again: these skills will be hardcapped when playing with them)
- Mythical Scion of Crimson Wakes: Looks good, but is outclassed by other weapons. EoR and Bleeding won´t be friends, Bonus to Fighting Form? DW Cadence Bleeding might be possible ( I doubt it because of lack of bonus to Cadence) if there were RR for e. g. Blademaster. But RR to Devouring Swarm which has already a good amount…wasted. Instead of EoR maybe Smite should get skill modifiers or, radical solution: Skip Oathkeeper and support Necromancer with Bonus e. g. to Bone Harvest.
- Mythical Butcher of Burrwitch: Sorry for the hard words, but it got castrated: Low flat Bleeding Damage, no Attack Speed, supports only Shaman with skill modfiers…no alternative for Tricksters.
Gloves:
- Mythical Sandreaver Bracers: On first look, they seem good…but they won´t get used very often (imho). I never saw a Forcewave Bleeding Build so the bonus to Internal Trauma is more than strange. Okay, Oathkeeper might be used in Bleeding Builds, so Presence of Virtue might be okay and Blood Boil for Necromancer is nice…but there are Gloves like Dark One´s Grasp, which gives a huge boost to any Bleeding Build which uses Wendigo Totem, Crimson Claws, which pushes 2H-builds with Shaman and Mythical Grasps of Unchained Might for Blade Arc Builds or Tricksters in need of RR. Solution might be to give a skill modfier to seldom used skill, like (again) Bone Harvest or RR to a Necromancer skill, or, or, or…
Medal:
- Mark of the Farseer: Yes I used it…on a Battlemage! Otherwise it is outperformed by anything else (Direwolf Crest, Mark of Consumption). Skill modifier on War Cry is nice, to Horn of Gandarr…well, no. Bonus to Storm Surge is strange (Primal Strike Bleeding? Yes, on my single mastery Shaman…otherwise…), the lack of OA really hard. Should be changed and (again): It should support classes like Occultist and/or Necromancer.
Boots/Pants:
Both great, lack of alternatives.
Rings:
Wrote everything about Ring of Orissia, others are fine (like “godly fine” for Belgothian´s and “fine” for Deathlord´s).
That´s all for the moment. 
4 Likes
I appreciate the conceptual explanation for how you can piggy back vitality damage into Beronath’s Shard, but on a dual wield Reaper for example: A - you only get main hand damage not the benefit of both weapons (as seen in Shadow Strike as an example) and B - you’re still diluting your focus in vitality back into elemental, which is essentially a penalty other classes with bona fide replacers don’t face.
It’s still a gap in the skills market which would benefit from an insertion of something (I feel this sentence leaves me open to a rude rejoinder of some sort).
I’d never use Any Legendary Shield with +Soldier in my build (https://www.grimtools.com/calc/RZR5My0V) because it leaves a big gap in my resists 
As I am testing Shadow strike recently and quite like it, I propose the following for the other two SS set:
- revamp dunefiend’s side of SS, make it support pierce SS instead. Omit that increase CD and total damage mod. Give bonus to nightfall also. Give global cold > pierce conversion in the set, convert cold>pierce mod for SS in full set bonus.
- make deathguard’s acid SS more potent. I think it’s almost there, just need more stats, cc res, and acid RR built in. Also I am not sure if you still want it to support Acid BH. You want 2H if you want to build around BH.
With this, there will be a clear separation in all 3 SS set…
Thank you for your consideration… 
Wow. I never looked closely at that one and lvl 75, too.
Shadow Strike when dual-wielding melee weapons strikes with both weapons, not just one. You might be confusing it with Blade Burst, Ring of Steel or Phantasmal Blades which only use one weapon.
Not really if you’re still building to deal as much Vitality damage as possible? You’re putting too much thought into the Elemental theming of Beronath’s Fury and not the weapon damage portion.
Say you make a character that is capable of dealing 25k Vitality damage through your weapon and you’ve capped your attack speed. You’re looking at Beronath’s Fury doing ~32k damage 3-4 times per second, which will be made stronger by any WPS multiplying your weapon damage further, adding extra damage on top or striking with both weapons simultaneously and in the case of ones like Necrotic Edge or Whirling Death multiples times. It’s not half bad.
Mastery replacers should be stronger as they take skill point investment in comparison to Beronath’s Fury which comes at less of a cost.
The great thing though about saving those skill points is that you can sink them back into collecting more and more flat damage and converting it over to your preferred damage type to try and make up for Beronath’s Fury being naturally weaker.
Sure, there’s a gap but I don’t think every damage type specifically needs a replacer tailored to it that is readily available for everyone. If you want to do a Vitality-based attacker, I think it’s fitting that you make the right choice to do so through masteries and/or gear which currently exists.
1 Like
You’re idea of dual wielding targo and corruptian is the idea that stands out for sure. The sole reason one of our members wanted more acid to phys was the fact that the belt slot is being utilized by an MI and he wants to play necro/occ and somehow convert all of SoC to phys.
We are aware of that armor affecting it and know that it would be suboptimal per certain circles.
I think we stumbled on something interesting when it comes to physical damage. It hasn’t been on this forum no matter how much we look. It is certainly not optimal but it’s really neat, works, and creates diversity. And that no means says we found it first. There is always someone out there who figures things out but doesn’t tell anyone.
Rest assured it is not game breaking however there is always the concern that it will be changed and that we don’t want.
Finally I appreciate your views and always see the merits in your posts.
Cheers
1 Like
One more suggestion: M. Olexra’s Chill. Please consider adding some attack speed or at least 10% total speed, as it is supposed to support cold ABB in melee, or be a caster scepter, but is has neither as/cs, nor even CDR.
So, at least 10% as/total speed would suit here well.
2 Likes
I want to add that Bleeding damage has experienced the biggest nerf crusade since Bloodrager set buff. Most weapons have been nerfed into the ground.
I wonder if it’s possible to revert some nerfs to Bloodsong and Butcher of Burwitch since 5 minute builds seem to be accepted by Crate nowadays and Bleeding Tricksters are in 6:30 territory which makes it really really tough to survive for them because they don’t have any decent means to sustain themselves.
The ADctH is nearly non-existent.
I don´t play Crucible but my workaround is Dryad. Quite fine, but still the only “Oh-Shit-Button” for a (really) fast glass of beer before you start new is Blade Barrier.
On the other hand Bleeding has no enemies with high resistance so no problems with RR.
It doesn’t work that way in Crucible. You are getting swarmed all the time and without decent sustain you are toast no matter the defenses. Before build survived by killing baddies fast enough, now it’s a struggle.
It’s a shame really, Bleeding used to be so fun to play, now, not so much.
[shrug]
@romanN1 did 6:37 (4 Buffs/1 Banner), didn´t seem very dangerous (Health not below 16k).
I do SR 75/76 without greater problems with Trickster. Vindicator goes even deeper (though 2H). It´s more about alternatives to Bloodsong, currently Butcher is not a real one (Scion either).
4 buffs/1 banner is not a legitimate run, lol. 6:37 is super slow as well considering what it used to be.
Because SR 75-76 is easier than Crucible 150-170.
Played by someone who has/had no real experience with Bleeding Builds with an non-optimized Crucible specc.
Sorry, Big Z. will never change anything which he thinks is fine. And a surviving build of Crucible 170 in 6:30 (even 6:45 or 7:00) is fine for him.
Yadaa, Yadaa…when I say “without greater problems” I mean farm without losing the time. Brought her to 80 before Deathstones arrived. So, No…no changes will be made there. Considered fine.
1 Like
not gonna change if you make it look like everything is fine, that’s for sure
yeah, so many whacky builds can do this nowadays with enough luck and patience. Not really an achievement. Doesn’t mean build is ok.
2 Likes
Ah, Ceno, you are the best Praetorian to quote me ignoring the context